I'm not sure what your point is. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I pray to God calling on the name of Jesus or calling Him, Jesus.
I pray the same way you do. But I know some people that are in the oneness church that when they pray they do not say JESUS they pray and say "dear Heavenly Father....etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
The big deal is with Trinitarians who say Jesus is the second person in the Godhead. There is a huge difference in saying Jesus a second person of God or God himself. Many Trinitarians think we as Oneness believers serve another Jesus and that we are lost because of it. They say we deny the Son of God, meaning the eternal Son of God. If God is one being who can say 'I AM' and does not consist of three persons, don't you think He might care that his children know this truth about him?
Well the truth is the reason most of the Trinnies say Jesus is the second in the Godhead is because as far as the struture or arrival in the Bible Jesus was the second manifestation of God. The do not see the name of God as being Jesus. They see the name of God being "God." Well the truth is that we both worship the same Jesus though we worship Him as God they worship Him as an attribute of God.
The word Trinity is a bad example to describe the Godhead, but that is how most people believe it. I hate to say it but it if you know that the name of God is Jesus then the intended meaing of the Trinity structure is simple to see. God is one, Jesus is one with the Father, and the HG is the Spirit of God.
It is like saying you have a pecan pie and you cut it into quarters and give them away. Each slice is still pecan pie. even though it was separated from the one unit. Because if took random pieces of pecan and tried to piece them together they would not fit right. Only until you take the exact pieces and fit them together do see the whole pie. Make since?
******EXAMPLE COMING*********************
Fred in the OT is was wrong to eat unclean meat, right? And when showed the sheet full of meat He the things were unclean. God said do not call things unclean when I have made them clean. There are people that feel eating pork and others to still be wrong some see it as being ok. So which ones are right? The one that see it the old way or the new? Do the old ones see it as the new ones are going to hell?
It would be a misunderstanding of God now wants. The old timers would have a misconception that eating pork is wrong. When infact it is not. Does the devil use pork to send anyone to hell? The devil tries to twist God word, i.e. Adam and Eve. But to say that the devil will use the written word and trick people into going to being saved a certain way is crazy. Infact saying such is heresy itself.
what a poor example. we have BIBLE that says "KILL AND EAT" we do not have bible that says "TITLES OR JESUS NAME IT IS A USER DECISION"
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
Great points! Alot of the people in the "oneness movement" do not know the difference between tri-theism. There is a world of difference there. I especially like your last part. "We need to be careful that we view our Dogma through scripture and not scripture through dogma." That is so, so true!
Well the truth is the reason most of the Trinnies say Jesus is the second in the Godhead is because as far as the struture or arrival in the Bible Jesus was the second manifestation of God. The do not see the name of God as being Jesus. They see the name of God being "God." Well the truth is that we both worship the same Jesus though we worship Him as God they worship Him as an attribute of God.
Please provide a source for Trinitarians believing Jesus is simply an attibute of God, instead of God himself.
The doctrine of the trinity as defined by tri-theism or three actual PERSONS as we understand the word persons, is unbiblical and erroneous.
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
Of course that is your view! you believe that people are saved when they repent. clearly we dont agree on that.
But as much as you see my view in error, I see yours in equal error. (we are back to "all trinitarians are lost")
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
what a poor example. we have BIBLE that says "KILL AND EAT" we do not have bible that says "TITLES OR JESUS NAME IT IS A USER DECISION"
Ok whatever....we do have the Bible that says baptize in the NAME of the father, son and the HG. There is only one name, that is Jesus. But there are not alot people that know that. They go with they have been raised under or taught by Dogma. Let me ask you something...Would have a problem with someone saying, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the HG which is Jesus Christ?" Would that bother you?
I'm not sure what your point is. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I pray to God calling on the name of Jesus or calling Him, Jesus.
The big deal is with Trinitarians who say Jesus is the second person in the Godhead. There is a huge difference in saying Jesus a second person of God or God himself. Many Trinitarians think we as Oneness believers serve another Jesus and that we are lost because of it. They say we deny the Son of God, meaning the eternal Son of God. If God is one being who can say 'I AM' and does not consist of three persons, don't you think He might care that his children know this truth about him?
Mizpeh, it is perfectly fine for trinitarians to say we OPs serve another jesus because we are legalistic dogmattics who force people into a salvation by works faith.
however, our enlightened hybred brothers here who do believe in One God but do not believe you are lost if you have some other view are saved by our standard, and get to be saved by the trinitarian standard. it helps their self esteeme.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Ok whatever....we do have the Bible that says baptize in the NAME of the father, son and the HG. There is only one name, that is Jesus. But there are not alot people that know that. They go with they have been raised under or taught by Dogma. Let me ask you something...Would have a problem with someone saying, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the HG which is Jesus Christ?" Would that bother you?
JT, clearly you are correct that most people dont know what you know. thus the reason I call it the devils greatest weapon.
you ask me if I have a problem with the above perscription? well, I just dont care. Be baptized in Jesus name. I am not going to argue symantics.
It is not useful.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
....
However, to ascribe eternal damnation to a person who has not received something that ONLY God can give, IMO, is worse than the doctrine in question. Remember, we're not talking about people living in licenciousness or wanton sin. We're talking about people who have been transformed by the word of God and multitudes even filled with His Spirit. Many of these have even been baptized in Jesus' name even though they don't completely understand why.
I'm all for walking in more and more truth, but to proclaim that these people are hell-bound, I believe, is to add to the word of God. That is VERY dangerous ground to be standing on, for sure. That is ground that I am not willing to defend, stand on or even give credence to one iota.
We need to be careful that we view our "dogma" through scripture and not scripture through dogma.
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