Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?

[Evang.Benincasa]

So how did the tithing doctrine enter into the Pentecostal movement?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So how did the tithing doctrine enter into the Pentecostal movement?

It’s certainly a good question. I wish I could give a well documented answer but unfortunately the early Pentecostal churches which were of many different doctrines were not really big on documentation. I do have an opinion though.

Coksiw mentioned that the Methodist (Wesley) didn’t really emphasize the tithe doctrine. I believe it is because that when Methodism was established the tithe was still rendered in produce. In the eighteenth century there is no church (to my knowledge) that was receiving tithe in money. It wasn’t until the Tithe Commutation Act:

The Tithe Act 1836, sometimes called the Tithe Commutation Act 1836, is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It is one of the Tithe Acts 1836 to 1891. It replaced the ancient system of payment of tithes in kind with monetary payments. Wikipedia

The Tithe Commutation Act was enacted in a time when there was an upheaval concerning the tithe doctrine, which was really a law. This upheaval included the Tithe War:

The Tithe War (Irish: Cogadh na nDeachúna) was a campaign of mainly nonviolent civil disobedience, punctuated by sporadic violent episodes, in Ireland between 1830 and 1836 in reaction to the enforcement of tithes on the Roman Catholic majority for the upkeep of the established state church, the Church of Ireland.

So, as I’ve said previously, the tithe doctrine has been changing for two thousand years and the changes have not always been welcomed by the tithers, but are usually brought about by the beneficiaries of the tithe.

Under the status quo, before the Tithe Act, tithe was only rendered by those who were involved in agriculture. Of course if you had only a cow or two, you wouldn’t have a tenth cow, so no tithe would be rendered. However, if you picked ten tomatoes, one tomato would be the tithe.

The Tithe Act changed all that. It actually exacted a tithe based on the record of agricultural production from the seven previous years which were averaged to compute the tithe owed. Annnd it was based on the value of the crop. If your ten acre farm had a history of producing five hundred bushels of wheat and the current market price is ten dollars per bushel, the tithe would be ten percent of the monetary value of the five thousand dollars (or British pounds etc.) of your crop. If you didn’t produce agriculture, you would not have anything eligible to tithe from.

So when the Pandora’s box of a tithe that was actually money was opened, a lot of change took place. Now that tithe is money, everyone is (supposedly) required to tithe. Even widows?! Pure heresy!

So it is my opinion, that after some seventy or eighty years of this change in tithing doctrine had time to establish itself, along comes the modern Pentecostal movement. It seems that the timing has so much to do with the strong doctrine of tithing error touted by the UPCI as well as other Pentecostal and apostolic churches. If Azusa Street had taken place in the early nineteenth century instead of a hundred years later, I think it would be a whole different situation.

Just my opinion. I realize some may not like it and you’re welcome to share yours, ( that is if you enjoy being wrong).

Lol.

[coksiw]

I wouldn't think it is probable that the AOG dropped tithing from their statements of truth, and moved it to the bylaws to soften their position. I'd think it is more probable that the money tithing doctrine moved from bylaws to the statement of truth to ensure the cash flow. Since the later didn't happen in the AOG, I think someone with power in the UPCI itself included it as a core doctrine intentionally after splitting from the PAW, or they just agreed to it when they joined the PAW earlier on (assuming the PAW already had it). So, I think the PAW already had it. Where the PAW got it from? No idea.

The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World is the result of the merger of two Oneness Pentecostal bodies in the early years of the Pentecostal movement. The oldest body was founded in 1914 by a Oneness minister named J. J. Frazier. The church was centered on the West Coast and was the first to use the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World name.[3]

The second body resulted from a schism within the Assemblies of God in 1916. That year the Assemblies of God general council disapproved of the Oneness doctrine and adopted a trinitarian Statement of Fundamental Truths.

So, basically, J. J. Frazier did it?

[Farfel]

Tithing can be found in the Foursquare Church’s statement of faith, compiled in 1923. Doubtful that this has had any influence on Oneness organizations though.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

There should be a thread about, “where did the UPCI, WPF, ALJC, AMF…..” get a lot of their standards, and bylaws from.

For example,

Where did the ________ get….
-Tithing
-Membership dues
-Conferences that charge admission
-Rapture doctrine
-Ministry Retirement Accounts
-Theatre Plays that Charge Admission
-Membership Insurance Plans
-First Lady

Several just want to focus on tithing because it has to deal with individual pockets. However, there is a list of things that organizations, religious no less, require to either benefit the local leadership, or the organization as a whole. I mean there is one organization that I know that you cannot join unless you pay a membership due each month. You also HAVE to sign a statement of faith that you believe in the 2nd coming of Christ.

I mean it could all change, look how it changed from the 80’s, 90’s and even the early 00’s many preachers were against TV’s, now almost all of us have one, yet we call it a phone. Many of us were against Televangelist’s, now many preachers, conferences, have become what they used to stand against.

Give it a couple years, maybe tithing will change. And we’ll all go back to bringing food to the storehouse. That may be needed more than Monopoly money.

Nicodemus, I know some get in "hero-self-sacrifice-loable" mode and ask "why such a deal with the pockets?" And, who can argue with someone proud of their sacrifices?

But this is the reality, when someone finds out that some minor Holiness things like ladies wearing tights for the snow is not a big deal as someone puts it because is not a "split garment", then that person just say "oh well, that was dumb, not a big deal".

However, when someone realizes that the modern tithing doctrine is a falsehood, that person feels abused, taken advantaged of, especially if you "sacrificed" your household and piled debt, or didn't move to a safer neighborhood, or didn't help parents as much as desired, etc...

Some falsehods you can recover from without much problem and you just overlook them, ... others, in the other hand, do creates strong feelings. Those "next level" falsehoods are usually the ones that give the perpetrator some money, power (controlling), or sex advantage over the deceived one.

I believe the Pentecostal movement has a strong tradition on people's mind that they struggle to get rid of. But I believe the time will come, when preachers and teachers and pastors preaching that doctrine will look bad to the congregations, and lose reputation, and look as deceitful to the people more and more, and it will create a counter reaction and a split. Remember, that lie is so easy to debunk, and the truth is so accessible nowadays. I just hope the split do not end up becoming like those that go all the way even to drop Holiness as some have done. The best case scenario is that the UPCI itself removes the tithing article so other churches that disagree with that obviously false doctrine can be part of the fellowship, so there is no an actual split.

Churches can perfectly function without tithing. There are plenty of examples in other organizations.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Farfel

Tithing can be found in the Foursquare Church’s statement of faith, compiled in 1923. Doubtful that this has had any influence on Oneness organizations though.

Good info, thank you for sharing it.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

….. The best case scenario is that the UPCI itself removes the tithing article so other churches that disagree with that obviously false doctrine can be part of the fellowship, so there is no an actual split.

Churches can perfectly function without tithing. There are plenty of examples in other organizations.

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

I see your sarcasm but I have never said I wanted tithing to be produce. I don’t believe that’s even applicable to outside Israel, or even inside Israel after thr cross and the ending of the Levitical priesthood.

I have no problem whatsoever to fund initiatives and teachers with money. My only problem is the falsehood behind the illegitimate 10% tax, and the lack of compassion resulting from that falsehood on the low income people (elders and disabled people living off social security, low income families, broken families, etc…) that are banned from participating, and made feel guilty, and are robbed from their necessities.

I know many Pastors are indeed compassionate and overlook failures to pay tithes and don’t preach hard on it. But many are not. I prefer the falsehood is done with and giving goes back to what the NT intended. I believe Oneness Pentecostalism needs to break from that abusive tradition. The organizations change or good Holiness non-full-preterist alternatives show up so saints can escape from that.