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  #871  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:03 AM
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Let me make myself clear. I do not define myself as a feminist. But feminism is really anything to do with equal rights for women, which most here are for. What we, as Christians, are opposed to, is abortion, female heads of house, lesbianism and the like. If that is feminism, then we are all opposed to it. But again, it's all in the definition of feminism. In the church the word feminism is usually said with a sneer, so the word itself is thought of negatively. But remember, the first feminists were Christian women, trying to get the vote for women. And isn't it Christianity that really gives women equal rights, rather than that Christianity hates women? Jesus was very egalitarian.
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  #872  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Let me make myself clear. I do not define myself as a feminist. But feminism is really anything to do with equal rights for women, which most here are for. What we, as Christians, are opposed to, is abortion, female heads of house, lesbianism and the like. If that is feminism, then we are all opposed to it. But again, it's all in the definition of feminism. In the church the word feminism is usually said with a sneer, so the word itself is thought of negatively. But remember, the first feminists were Christian women, trying to get the vote for women. And isn't it Christianity that really gives women equal rights, rather than that Christianity hates women? Jesus was very egalitarian.
I absolutly agree with this. at least in principle. Christianity gives HUMANITY the same standing before God. As Christians we should be committed to that. but there remains within Christianity clear lines of distinction between men and women. these do not exist in ANY form of modern feminism.

As a christian, I am committed to standing for what is right. that doesnt mean I am an ally to feminists in any form even when they end up being partially right on one particular point.... even a blind hog can find the occasional acorn.

(this is very similar to the discussion I just had on Communsim and Christianity) Counterfits should not be extoled for their virtue. they are still counterfits.
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  #873  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:22 AM
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Ever see a man carry a baby? (And I am not sure that feminism is against paternity leave.)
for the last 3 years ive seen myself carry my son... does that count?
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  #874  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:25 AM
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I don't think you are against all form sof feminism. You are against what you define as feminism.
I am agaisnt the soul of all forms of modern Feminism. the Modern Feminist has co-opted the term to mean certain things. at its soul all forms of feminism seeks to eliminate the differnces between men and women. that is enough for me to say I am against it.

I am NOT against anything that is RIGHT. where the blind hog of feminism says a woman should get paid the same as a man for the same job, we agree. that doesnt make me a blind hog. it makes me a right thinking Chirstian.
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  #875  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I believe you would be a lady in every respect however many are not and YOU and I both know them but we won't name them here.:sshhh
Whether a woman is being "manly" or not is generally a matter of personal opinion.

Women who declare the Word of God boldly are often accused of being manly. But yet a soft spoken man can declare the same Word and not be accused of being feminine.

Women who wear dark colored suits with a coat and walk with their head held high and shoulders back are often accused of trying to look like a man. While a man can wear nylon socks with designs on them and sit on the platform and cross his legs so as to expose these socks and hes not accused of trying to look like a woman.

A woman can plainly state her opinion and beliefs and be accused of not having a meek and quiet spirit, being rebellious, being a feminist, etc. But a man can "give them a piece of his mind", make a complete fool out of himself, cause all sorts of strife and discord, ranting and raving his opinions and beliefs and well, hes just being a man and some of those fruits of the Spirit just don't apply to men.

I won't call a name but I'm sure you'll recognize the initials JT. Many men accuse her of acting like a man. But when push comes to shove, the only opinions that matter in this regard are those of her husband and God. And the same applies to other women.

Opinions are like feet...we all have them and some of them stink.
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  #876  
Old 09-19-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I am agaisnt the soul of all forms of modern Feminism. the Modern Feminist has co-opted the term to mean certain things. at its soul all forms of feminism seeks to eliminate the differnces between men and women. that is enough for me to say I am against it.

I am NOT against anything that is RIGHT. where the blind hog of feminism says a woman should get paid the same as a man for the same job, we agree. that doesnt make me a blind hog. it makes me a right thinking Chirstian.
I for one am thankful for those brave women who fought for equal rights for women. You can call them anything you want. I don't think I would have enjoyed living 200 years ago, when women were basically considered mere possessions and icing on a man's cake.

I think things would have to be taken to an extreme to see it really do any good to bring about change. Otherwise men just don't listen. It's too bad that it's the man's world that caused a woman to have to push so hard.

Which really only goes to show you how out of balance our world really is. How many more 100's of years will it take to bring about the equality that Jesus would be pleased with?
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  #877  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by The Mrs View Post
I for one am thankful for those brave women who fought for equal rights for women. You can call them anything you want. I don't think I would have enjoyed living 200 years ago, when women were basically considered mere possessions and icing on a man's cake.

I think things would have to be taken to an extreme to see it really do any good to bring about change. Otherwise men just don't listen. It's too bad that it's the man's world that caused a woman to have to push so hard.

Which really only goes to show you how out of balance our world really is. How many more 100's of years will it take to bring about the equality that Jesus would be pleased with?
humanity will fail until Jesus gets tired of hearing it.

and those Christian women who stood for what was right, are a far cry different from modern feminism.
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  #878  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
humanity will fail until Jesus gets tired of hearing it.

and those Christian women who stood for what was right, are a far cry different from modern feminism.
They may be...but back in THEIR day, can you just imagine what they had to go through? And the things that were said about THEM? Either to their face or behind their backs. I'm sure it's not much different from what is being said about some women today.

Sometimes extremes have to be sought after, just to bring things into a proper BALANCE.

Do you personally see or recognize any discrimination of women in our world today?
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  #879  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:27 AM
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stopping by today as I word on a new missions program on my computer for our new missionaries...
Let me say I did get in contact and Elder CE George never wrote a book about womwn preachers only a small tract that Sister George does not even send out when people ask for tracts. After thinking a long while last night and early this morning I may have seen the tract I cannot remember but I sat under the teachings of Elder CE George so most of the things he taught is like a book inside me...women preachers, end times, communion and many other things.
My book was first written in Portuguese over 20 years ago and mostly deals with William Branham followers and his teachings concerning women and WHERE they came from. (I update and add to it every year) I have serval books in Portuguese and one that I translated for Elder George at that time if I am not mistaken Elder Epley preached Branhamite doctrine. That was many years ago...many...(nothing against the elder) but he too knows the effect of that doctrine...

I have had close dealings with Branhamites both in the state and in Brazil and even had 2 of their preachers come hear me speak at our convention 2 years ago...If you speak Portuguese you can order my lesson, sermon, speech, whatever you want to call it from our Brazilian church...My text: The Spirit of Absolom...
Afterwards they stayed over to speak with me and seemed surprized that a woman would know how to handle God's word... what a lose for their group when women have many talents...I have been to their services in Brazil...It is a cult if you ask me...
I have debated that group and groups that have broke off from them...
You may deny a woman the right to spead the gospel but you cannot deny that the first christians both men and women went everywhere PREACHING the word of God...whatever the word preaching means to you.
Even the drawings in the Catacombs speak...The councils of the so called early church fathers PROVE that fact...
I am not a forward woman in fact I am timid but I feel on my heart the weight of a lost world and everything I can do to reach it I will...
At this writing (not bragging) I gave the money I had been given to buy me a stove as mine "died" to a preacher to go back into the jungle and reach one more lost soul..I CAN cook at my daughter in laws house we live next door, Every time the pendulum of your clock swings eternal souls sink into hell… and we cannot go next door and save them after they are gone...
I am for making Jesus known and I am consumed with a burden...I seldom stoop (excuse this expression) to fuss about who can make Him known...

I am tired of little conventions with people measuring themselves among themselves...while MILLIONS sit in eternal darkness...
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  #880  
Old 09-19-2007, 10:39 AM
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part of my book..

Let me say early in this book I believe that man is woman's covering and he is the head of the home, yet this does not take away her right to tell the story of Jesus or do His work. This is not intended to deal with domestic responsibilities or duties of a wife. We all know that each one, who has personal Biblical responsibilities to teach different from this, would be going against the Bible. Yet when all things are said and done we still remember the words of Acts 8:3-4 where Paul was persecuting christain men and women and committing them to prison. Like in all situations where people have tried to stamp out the gospel, God preserved witnesses and the scriptures go on to say they {men and women} went everywhere preaching the word of God. It is obvious that verse four speaks of men and women since verse three speaks of men and women and neither the context or story has changed from one verse to the next. A person would have to be very simple or biased to say otherwise.
I want you to know that the handmaidens of the Lord have gleaned in His fields everywhere for many years. Eternity is getting ready to reveal the rest of the story. Their value to the kingdom of God will be made known to all on judgment day. The Lord who is a righteous judge will reward them openly.
It is interesting to note that the main citation for the oneness people not accepting the trinity is the council of Nicea. But little is said that it was Rome that took the women out of the pulpits.
Speaking of Rome I feel one of our greatest problems is church structure and not per say “women preachers”. For if we study the first structure of the Acts church we will find the church operating without Roman rituals and rules
I am painfully aware that religious activities in Greco-Roman paganism included cult prostitution and shriek cries described as wild outcries. The Corinthian female dominated religious thought and practice. From the mother goddess Artemis to the women serving their time as sacred temple prostitutes and speaking messages from the gods, the male of Corinth was deeply dependent upon the female. Yet this has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ but sadly it has influenced the thinking of many people. Yet men like John of Chrysostom (who was no champion of women) called Priscilla a “teacher of teachers.”
So who are we to judge what God has spoken to someone else? Who are we to say what they feel deep in their hearts.
So many times in my life it would have been easier for the moment to deny the calling of God and be on the popular bandwagon but I fear God to much for that. For he has no time to waste on people who will not be true to their calling. I think of something I read in Foxes book of Martyrs about The First Persecution, Under Nero, A.D. 67.
This persecution was general throughout the whole Roman Empire; but it rather increased than diminished the spirit of Christianity. Another part says ,
"a noble army, men and boys, the matron and the maid," "climbed the steep ascent of heaven, 'mid peril, toil, and pain." Let me quietly mention a few that signed their calls in their own blood.

The Fifth Persecution, Commencing With Severus, A.D. 192

Perpetua, a married lady, of about twenty-two years. Those who suffered with her were, Felicitas, a married lady, big with child at the time of her being apprehended, and Revocatus, catechumen of Carthage, and a slave. The names of the other prisoners, destined to suffer upon this occasion, were Saturninus, Secundulus, and Satur. On the day appointed for their execution, they were led to the amphitheater. Satur, Saturninus, and Revocatus were ordered to run the gauntlet between the hunters, or such as had the care of the wild beasts. The hunters being drawn up in two ranks, they ran between, and were severely lashed as they passed. Felicitas and Perpetua were stripped, in order to be thrown to a mad bull, which made his first attack upon Perpetua, and stunned her; he then darted at Felicitas, and gored her dreadfully; but not killing them, the executioner did that office with a sword. Revocatus and Satur were destroyed by wild beasts; Saturninus was beheaded; and Secundulus died in prison. These executions were in the 205, on the eighth day of March.

Cecilia, a young lady of good family in Rome, was married to a gentleman named Valerian. She converted her husband and brother, who were beheaded; and the maximus, or officer, who led them to execution, becoming their convert, suffered the same fate. The lady was placed naked in a scalding bath, and having continued there a considerable time, her head was struck off with a sword, A.D. 222
The Eighth Persecution, Under Valerian, A.D. 257

Maxima, Donatilla, and Secunda, three virgins of Tuburga, had gall and vinegar given them to drink, were then severely scourged, tormented on a gibbet, rubbed with lime, scorched on a gridiron, worried by wild beasts, and at length beheaded.
(from Fox's Book of Martyrs, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Time and space do not permit me to add more martyrs to the list but thousands of people sealed their testimonies with their own blood. The blood of both women and men has bathed the gospel that we hold so dear. Do not be caught up with the frivolity things of life. Presses on where he has put you in the body for all body members are needful.

I have felt the call of God on my life since a small child. It grieves me to see people waste precious time debating other people’s call. I have never tried to defend my call for what human can explain the divine?
This book is certainly no masterpiece for I do not have time nor claim the abilities to do such a work. It is only a desire in my heart to see every soul saved and every mouthpiece possible used to that end. Our endless shopping sprees would suddenly come to a halt if we could really realize the fate of the lost. Vacations would not have the same flavor if we could look on eternity through the eyes of him who uttered, “Look upon the fields, they are white unto harvest.” If calvary were to become as real to us as we say it is our little ego trips of who spreads the message would fade into obscurity as we look upon an agonizing Savior pointing us to go to the ends of the world proclaiming this life giving message. As the old song reminds us, if Calvary could talk it would tell us to go tell the lost.


Acts 17:11 “These were more noble...For they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so.” (RSV)
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