No...the UPC owns very few buildings that I know of...usually if a district owns the property it is because the property was being foreclosed and the district bailed it out financially at some point in its history...this happened more further in the past than in the last 15 years...
Even in an affiliated church the church remains autonomous and owns its own property...but the district kindof owns the pulpit because affiliation is a legally binding agreement between that church and the UPC that ONLY a UPC licensed preacher will pastor there...
It is important to note that there have been cases where the church was affiliated, the pastor lost his card, and he had to leave with a majority of the congregation with him because affiliation is binding! So if a preacher thinks he might be leaving the UPC...he'd best disaffiliate before anyone catches on...LOL
Just when I thought I was understanding all this!
I understand why the pastor "had to leave", but with most of the people? I'm guessing that's just a matter of loyalty to the pastor? Not "had to" leave, but wanted to. Is that it?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
ok, so now I have one more question for you. Doesn't have anything to do with affiliation or not...............
but if a UPC church has gone steadily, steadily, steadily downhill for years and finally the day comes that it must close the doors for good - at that point, what happens to the property?
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Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
I understand why the pastor "had to leave", but with most of the people? I'm guessing that's just a matter of loyalty to the pastor? Not "had to" leave, but wanted to. Is that it?
I meant "had to leave" on the basis of affiliation. It is symantics really. Yes he chose to leave and a bulk of the congregation chose to go with him to start another church.
Again, if the church would have not been affiliated, he could have lost his license and continue to pastor in that same location with a majority of the congregation....
But they didn't know the binding agreement of affiliation and therefore, when the district took his license he had to go find another building...
BTW, if a man is being investigated or has charges up against him...he cannot move to disaffiliate until the charges are settled and he is again in good standing...LOL...
So some of these affiliated folks had better hurry up if they are realy spouting about leaving or they just might be in the market for some new property....
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I DIDN'T HAVE A HAIR CUTTING PARTY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Pelathais, I sure hope you don't get banned for telling the truth.
I have seen so many lies posted. The best one is the one Triumphant 1 did his best to combat. You know, the hair cutting party thing?
Prominent members of this board chose to believe the lie and even continue to spread it, even though T1 had totally proved it was false.
ok, so now I have one more question for you. Doesn't have anything to do with affiliation or not...............
but if a UPC church has gone steadily, steadily, steadily downhill for years and finally the day comes that it must close the doors for good - at that point, what happens to the property?
Look at this both ways:
I would think if the UPC went bust as a whole the binding agreement to be pastored by a UPC preacher becomes void...no UPC, no agreement...
Do not be confused here...the UPC is not like the Methodist church where the property is deeded to the denominatoin...in all but a few rare cases, the local church owns the property 100% so if the UPC went bust there would be no property issues....
Now, as a local church, if it goes bust, the government stipulates that as a non-profit, if it goes out of business, all remaining assets must be given to another non-profit...those parameters must be set up in the church bylaws...many UPC churches (both affiliated and not) stipulate that the property goes to the UPC if the church goes out of business....but the church can choose ANY non-profit for this purpose....
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I DIDN'T HAVE A HAIR CUTTING PARTY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Pelathais, I sure hope you don't get banned for telling the truth.
I have seen so many lies posted. The best one is the one Triumphant 1 did his best to combat. You know, the hair cutting party thing?
Prominent members of this board chose to believe the lie and even continue to spread it, even though T1 had totally proved it was false.
Thanks to all of you for the info. You cleared up a lot of my questions. As you can imagine, several churches in my area are up in the air about these events. I wanted to be able to discuss the topic with them with some knowledge.
Thanks to all of you for the info. You cleared up a lot of my questions. As you can imagine, several churches in my area are up in the air about these events. I wanted to be able to discuss the topic with them with some knowledge.
I pastored an affiliated church...took it through the disaffiliation process...and happily pastor there to this day without a UPC license...
As you can imagine...I studied this whole thing with diligence to have walked though it personally....
__________________
I DIDN'T HAVE A HAIR CUTTING PARTY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Pelathais, I sure hope you don't get banned for telling the truth.
I have seen so many lies posted. The best one is the one Triumphant 1 did his best to combat. You know, the hair cutting party thing?
Prominent members of this board chose to believe the lie and even continue to spread it, even though T1 had totally proved it was false.
I meant "had to leave" on the basis of affiliation. It is symantics really. Yes he chose to leave and a bulk of the congregation chose to go with him to start another church.
Again, if the church would have not been affiliated, he could have lost his license and continue to pastor in that same location with a majority of the congregation....
But they didn't know the binding agreement of affiliation and therefore, when the district took his license he had to go find another building...
BTW, if a man is being investigated or has charges up against him...he cannot move to disaffiliate until the charges are settled and he is again in good standing...LOL...
So some of these affiliated folks had better hurry up if they are realy spouting about leaving or they just might be in the market for some new property....
As I understand from reading the Manual, any church can vote to disaffiliate at any announced business meeting. The qualifier is that they have to allow the DS or his rep speak at the meeting, so the org gets one last sales pitch, so to speak.
The language does give a founding pastor more authority and control than a later pastor would have. But still, the "new" guy could "take over" a church and persuade the majority to disaffiliate - or even to affiliate an unaffiliated church as well.
I guess the way you look at it depends upon your local or District political situation. I've seen a couple of churches around here be taken out of the org by "new pastors" who it appears were simply trying to get away from the org. So they move to a new district, take a church and disaffiliate leaving the UPC without a church in an area where it had invested a lot of time and even contributed funds in building.
Just when I thought I was understanding all this!
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