Ezek 16:8-17

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So God used something sinful to describe something figuratively for Isreal?

Truthseeker, your honest search for real answers is awesome. I wish more people took that approach instead of tossing the baby out with the bathwater as we see way too often.

I do not believe that God used something sinful to describer something figuratively for Israel. Jewelry is not sinful, but we do understand that jewelry is a visible and outward sign to the world, who understands it as a representation for wealth.

We understand that God "adorned" or BLESSED his people with great wealth so that the heathen nations around Israel would see the blessings he bestowed upon them. Clearly those blessings led Israel to complacency.

Scripture teaches us that Israel is a type and shadow of the church. We see then that God's action of blessings on Israel is a cautionary tale for us. God wants to bless His people but we must remember that those blessings can lead to comfort which can further lead to complacency and stagnation.

We know that God dealt with Israel in a vastly different manner than He deals with the New Testament church. We see this in many different areas. We also know that we have been enjoined to avoid wearing jewelry in the New Testament.

Now if Israel is a Type and Shadow of the New Testament Church, we understand that Israel is a FIGURATIVE example. If then, God blessed Israel with REAL jewelry and costly array; does that not then translate in the same way? If Israel is a Type and Shadow, or a figurative example for the church, then we understand that God does even now BLESS His Church. Israel was a physical example for the spiritual that was to come…and now is.


Truthseeker, in simple terms, what God did in Blessing Israel, He does now with the Church. But what was literal for Israel, is spiritual for the church today. That is a principle that we use ALL of the time, is used throughout the writings of the Apostles, and is a standard in all Christian denominations. God adorned Israel. God adorns His church. Then with natural jewels, now with spiritual. We know this because we are enjoined by both Peter and Paul to not wear jewelry. We are enjoined to be in this world but not of it.

I hope this gives you a better understanding. I hope I didn’t ramble too much. Keep seeking!

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

My argument was around the idea that Jewlery leads to other things. SO does the internet and so many other things.

Moderation is the key.

Nathan Eckstadt

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Ferd

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

If it were 'clear'...why would we be having this discussion?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

If it were 'clear'...why would we be having this discussion?

bible clearly says baptize in Jesus name. we have that discussion.
bible says dont fornicate. I have had "that" discussion with a "saved" methodist. (he thought he was saved while living with his girlfriend)

we have all kinds of discussions about things that are "clear" that some folk want to get around.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

Prophecy often contains figurative language. It isn't that God literally covered Israel with jewels, etc., it's that He covered Israel in the beauty of holiness. But Israel, flaunting its special status as God's chosen people, put its trust in that status instead of trusting in God. Because Israel stopped trusting in God, it violated the covenant relationship with God and, in effect, played the harlot and committed adultery against God.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Ferd

God forbid! Sombody went to lunch after CHURCH ON SUNDAY dressed up. Amazing! the sin of it all! good grief. this is your proff that Apostolics dont know how to dress casual?

I didn't say it was sin, but I thought is was overdone. Hey, we all have our preferences, I think you know what I mean. If we are going to condemn a little jewelry, let's be consistent and condemn the overdone.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Ferd

still doesnt work. we arent talking about jewlery leading to other things, we are talking about the fact that we are given clear instruction in scripture to avoid it. this isnt a "temptation" discussion.

internet and jewlery dont work. internet and TV does work.

You simply can not prove that your assumptions. Every minister that has preached against Jewelery has stated that is a look of the world. Then worldly things lead to sin.

There simply is not a mandate in scripture for not wearing jewlery.

And so on....

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Chan

Prophecy often contains figurative language. It isn't that God literally covered Israel with jewels, etc., it's that He covered Israel in the beauty of holiness. But Israel, flaunting its special status as God's chosen people, put its trust in that status instead of trusting in God. Because Israel stopped trusting in God, it violated the covenant relationship with God and, in effect, played the harlot and committed adultery against God.

With that said we can come up with a figurative Analogy for anything in the bible. We sometimes place too much stock in what some 13th century writer told us a passage represents.

The tabernacle in the wilderness has great analogies for us today.

It was also a literal place....

Nathan Eckstadt

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

..., Eph.1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise."NKJV

Ephesians 1:13-14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise; Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." NKJV
The word translated guarantee in the NKJV is translated as follows in some different versions:
earnest KJV
pledge NASB, Moffatt, NEB, Syriac, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible
deposit NIV, Apostolic polyglot
guarantee NLT, NCV, ISV, RSV
signet The Message
In the Koine Greek this word is arrabon which means earnest money, deposit, down payment, or security deposit and I've heard or read that it is used in modern Greek for an engagement ring.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I know you all have heard more standards theads then ya can shake a stick at but I am honestly trying to get a better understanding, so please help me out with the below scripture. Thanks




Ezek 16:8-17

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
KJV

If ornaments are so wrong why did God say I decked thee with ornaments, bracelets, necklace and even earrings??

So if we are going to take this text literal, how many believe that Israel was literally running around nekkid when God found them and spread his skirt over them. ANd While we are at it, WHY WAS GOD WEARING A SKIRT!!!

and OH MY!, it says that God washed them with water (baptism), and anointed them with oil (Spirit)