Admin...I am sorry that this thread has turned to a sour note...I in no way want to tear down good churchs...or pastors...I just want the organization to see there is a problem, and if they don't do something about it...many will be lost...we are talking about souls here...we are talking about pain...and many don't recover...they walk away and never return to God...does anyone...ANYONE....want that on their head when they stand before the throne....I know I don't...I know there are good churches in the UPC...I know there are awesome men of God....but one bad apple can spoil the barrel and don't we after all....as I said want people saved!
I do know what it is like. I had a very bad situation happen to me and my family, I don't wish to reveal or relive it here. I have had to forgive and move on even though they are still after years telling their lies and trying to hurt us.
I must forget and forgive or be lost.
There is no scripture that says we must forget. In fact, forgetting is impossible unless God takes the memory from you.
I have to wonder how you would feel and what actions you would take if your pastor entered your house, took your daughter out in the street, and beat her for having a TV in her closet, which turned out to be untrue?
Just forgive and forget? I doubt it. Sorry.
I doubt your daughter would agree with that either. Or your wife, for that matter.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
So preacher can be run down, belittled, bad mouthed and tore down but don't' dare say anything about a church member. That is a double standard. There aer plenty of rotten, backslid, lying, backstabbing, two faced church members out there, that ae out to destroy every preacher they can. They will destroy any preacher that they can not run. They will starve him and his family out. They will use him and abuse him and then dump him. There are many backslidden preachers, [preacher's wives, and preacher kids because of them rotten saints that would stop at nothing to get their way in church.
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Originally Posted by freeatlast
I have never seen one like this, never heard tell of saints like this.
I think you are just making it up to stir up this thread.
To speak so of God's heritage WH TSK TSK TSK
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Originally Posted by Jeanie
I would have to agree with you, to call people those rotten saints--besides the use of that phrase doesn't actually stir anyone to be a supporter of WH's cause, it's very derogatory and demeaning.
just like the stories of bad cult like churches that many of us find so hard to believe......
there ARE saints like WH described. Just b/c YOU havent seen it, doest mean it doesnt exist.
I know of pastors, pastors wives and their children that are unsaved today b/c of church trouble EXACTLY as WH described. Was the church trouble 100% to blame for their losing out with God? No, but it was a catalyst. And it DOES exist.
just like the stories of bad cult like churches that many of us find so hard to believe......
there ARE saints like WH described. Just b/c YOU havent seen it, doest mean it doesnt exist.
I know of pastors, pastors wives and their children that are unsaved today b/c of church trouble EXACTLY as WH described. Was the church trouble 100% to blame for their losing out with God? No, but it was a catalyst. And it DOES exist.
I have to say that there are more 'saints' who have pastor for Sunday dinner than pastor having saint for dinner.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I am praying as I am typing this, I really hope as a man of God, as a shepard of a flock, that you are not as as unfeeling and uncaring as you come across in your posts. I have no idea who you are, all I have to go on is what I see from you on this forum. And I don't see any compassion or kindness from you on here. I realize that you may be frustrated by some of the things that you see on here, but to paint everyone on here with the same brush is not fair.
I have close family in the ministry, and I believe WHOLEHEARTEDLY in respect and deference to the ministry. But to imagine that because someone is a preacher, that he is not human or capable of bad actions is not reasonable. And you seem to be implying that if someone is a preacher, he should get a free pass on this kind of behavior. I know that cannot be correct, am I misreading you?
Never every said that they should get a free pass at all. I do not believe that the pew runs the church either.
Some of the stuff I read I can hardly believe. If some preacher ask me for a house key, car key, checking account info and so on I would run not walk away for that place.
i am a firm believer in holiness standards and that anyone that is a member of the church MUST abide by them, with that said there are something that are left up to the individual.
I believe in tithing but if one doesn't they won't be used but neither will they be billed or questioned. Neither will it be preached on over and over.
I have had people leave before, not many, I think I have had 5 or 6 in 15 year of pastoring to leave. They were never talked about from the pulpit. If someone ask why they left I told them to talk to the one who left. With one exception, I had a woman (oh she dressed the part she was miss holy holy) who was a gossip and backbiter. She talked about the new converts, talked about the young people, all the while eating them up to their face. After she caused us to lose a new family she was asked (by me ) to find another place to attend.
I do not run down saints. I made the post I did to show how it feels to have people run down your group all the tme. Peopl here idi like it when I said thing about church member, notice I didn't say saint. But many peacher and their families have be deeply hurt by church members, does that make all church member bad? NO
just like the stories of bad cult like churches that many of us find so hard to believe......
there ARE saints like WH described. Just b/c YOU havent seen it, doest mean it doesnt exist.
I know of pastors, pastors wives and their children that are unsaved today b/c of church trouble EXACTLY as WH described. Was the church trouble 100% to blame for their losing out with God? No, but it was a catalyst. And it DOES exist.
Thank You.
I wouldn't call names but I know families that are completely backslid because of the way the family was treated by the church.
Never every said that they should get a free pass at all. I do not believe that the pew runs the church either.
Some of the stuff I read I can hardly believe. If some preacher ask me for a house key, car key, checking account info and so on I would run not walk away for that place.
i am a firm believer in holiness standards and that anyone that is a member of the church MUST abide by them, with that said there are something that are left up to the individual.
I believe in tithing but if one doesn't they won't be used but neither will they be billed or questioned. Neither will it be preached on over and over.
I have had people leave before, not many, I think I have had 5 or 6 in 15 year of pastoring to leave. They were never talked about from the pulpit. If someone ask why they left I told them to talk to the one who left. With one exception, I had a woman (oh she dressed the part she was miss holy holy) who was a gossip and backbiter. She talked about the new converts, talked about the young people, all the while eating them up to their face. After she caused us to lose a new family she was asked (by me ) to find another place to attend.
I do not run down saints. I made the post I did to show how it feels to have people run down your group all the tme. Peopl here idi like it when I said thing about church member, notice I didn't say saint. But many peacher and their families have be deeply hurt by church members, does that make all church member bad? NO
Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying, I guess that my only comment would be that in all my years as a pastors child, I have never seen anyone in my family treated in the way that some of these people have been treated by their pastors.
We were run down, talked about, criticized and generally treated badly by some of the saints, sure. But nothing remotely like some of the things that have been discussed here. And I don't think that being in the ministry excuses anyone from any kind of abuse of power. It would seem that you are saying that you agree with that?
I can see where things like this could happen, I am thinking now of several new converts that we have in our church. They are so happy, and thankful for the lives that God has brought them out of, and so in love with the church and the pastor, that if he were not an ethical man of God, he could probably get them to agree with and do a lot of things that they shouldn't. Because they respect and trust him. Just something to consider.
I feel by this thread like I would if I heard a pastor bad mouthing, downing the saints in his church. I think that something are better left unsaid. I have had situation in my life that left a very bad taste in my kids mouth, but I told them, people are human and sometimes do dumb things and there are some that are just bad, but most are good. Yes we have been done wrong by a few, but have been bless by most.
It was hard for them to see their father attacked verbal and yes physical by the people he had invested the most in.. But I refuse to let the be filled with hatred and anger. If those people never repent they must repent of their feeling to be saved. They must love those who have lied on them, used them, and mistreated them.
Saints must do the same. For every bad preacher there are dozens of good one. Those who love the saints and would do anything for them.
To keep hashing and rehashing things does nothing but keep the bitterness and anger alive.
If one is in a cow paster and walks by a cowpaddy it will stink, but if you stop and stir in it it will stink worse.
True -- but if one has a wound that has not healed properly or has become infected, some work may need to be done rather than just ignoring it. Removing the scab or resetting the bone may seem painful & senseless; but would be helpful nonetheless; in fact, it may be imperative and quite necessary to administer such painful and seemingly senseless treatment to facilitate the healing process.
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Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
1Pe 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
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