((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by PreacherV

I was the one who hinted about the missions guy. I never stated that he was on TV, just that he is pro-TV. My source says that although this particular minister has been courted heavily by WPF, he is not interested.

Thanks preacha! weird that they would even want him being that TV is their ONLY reason for leaving????!!!!!!!!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pentecostisalive

The situation with this list is still fluid. The site was not scheduled to be released until Dec 26, so it is still under construction.

Someone hacked into it, and released the unofficial information early.

No one "hacked" anything. The list was first published on the Bible Quizzing site, then removed. Now a nearly identical list is openly available on the WPF website.

The only "hacking" that's going on involves the true motives of the organizers and a few of the supporters.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

No one "hacked" anything. The list was first published on the Bible Quizzing site, then removed. Now a nearly identical list is openly available on the WPF website.

The only "hacking" that's going on involves the true motives of the organizers and a few of the supporters.

When I saw this thread - and I skimmed through the 38 pages, so I don't think anyone has seen or noticed yet - but I found a way to get into the website that Larry Booker is working on right now. It is still under construction...and we'll see if the pages stay live of if they get taken down once I post this...
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=379

Pel, does this sound like hacking to you?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Pel, does this sound like hacking to you?

It depends on how generous you want to be with the term "hacking." Some people say that tying your shoe laces differently is "hacking."

Simply googling the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship site will tell you that they're using PHP (hint: look at the URLs). The default name for an index page in PHP is "page.php." So since you know it's not IIS, just add the "page.php" and Voilà! I suppose Elfin is smarter than me and probably just typed in "page.php" as his first guess. My first guess is always "index.html" and BOOMM scolds me for that.

I guess you'd have to have some experience in web design to know about default index pages and such. But the pages are just sitting there on the web so there's no technical hacking involved. The site doesn't have any navigation on its home page, that's not "protection" by anyone's definition. And "hacking" generally means defeating someone else's protection. Elfin's statement, "I found a way to get into the website..." only meant that he had "discovered" that there were other pages available on the server. I don't know Elfin, but it may also be that he surprised himself. But "hacking" it was NOT. The pages weren't even hidden.

Also, the committee lists appear to be scans of printed flyers. They even seem to have glare on them like the original paper was either slightly reflective or translucent with a reflective backing.

I'd guess that somebody has a stack of these in a box awaiting distribution, or they've just got the prototype and are so giddy to get started that they've put it up on the web already.

But why is the list still there, even after all the flack? Did the web monkey forget his password and now he can't clean it up like the Bible Quizzing site before? Unlikely. It seems that the list makers are satisfied with their work so far and are now moving toward that brighter Apostolic future that they intend to unveil.

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by PreacherV

Greetings all!

I just made the mistake of reading through all the new posts that were added to this thread while I was sleeping the night away in peaceful bliss, knowing that the devil was in the phone booth dialing 911 and that I had just saved a bundle of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

Whether we choose to admit it or not, it is true that we all approach this subject with some sort of bias based on our own experiences, and it is apparent that on both sides of the aisle the most difficult thing to do is to be honest with ourselves.

I'll go first....As much as I want to see TV used to spread the gospel (and I do believe there is great potential in advertising and in the concept of redefining televangelism), I also am among the 30% of UPC ministers that would like to see all language regarding TV removed from the manual. My bias....I was raised in a home where there was no TV until I was 13 years old. We were taught that TV was an evil medium that one could not control. If you had one in your home, you would spend all your time watching it and would do nothing productive with your life. Funny thing was a lot of the people I knew that had TV hardly watched it and were amazed by how us Pentecostals couldn't take our eyes off the thing when passing by it....very, very slowly...in the electronics section at Wal-Mart. When my dad bought a little black and white TV, just as had been prophesied, we sat practically glued to the thing for hours at a time.....for like a week. And then we went on with our lives. I grew up, developed a personal walk with God, received my call of God to the ministry and walked right past the TV every day on my way to the will of God for my life until I got out on my own and was able to make the decision not to have a TV--or should I say until the UPC was able to make the decision for menot to have a TV. Therefore, I do not share the view of TV that many others have.

What is your bias? Are you more "principled" than me?

I used to have much greater respect for these holy men of God who were really "taking a stand" against such things that I in my carnality just didn't think was that big of a deal. I thought I was a weaker Christian that would never attain the level of men of such spiritual caliber. But now I believe they are no different than me. I like entertainment.....they like power. Both can easily corrupt a man.

I was shocked at GC when men who have so loudly voiced their opposition to TV were silent on the issue. There was no debate. A prepared statement for the resolution, a prepared statement against it, a couple of statements regarding the proposed amendment, and then the vote. I have heard people whine that KH pushed to the vote too quickly. That is just not true. Anthony Mangun and Irvin Baxter were the only people who made a move to the mic and both got their 2 cents in --AM for the amendment, IB against the amendment.

If the stuff coming into my PM box is true (and I have no reason to doubt the source), then many of these men are not leaving because they are anti-TV. They are begging a man to come on board in spite of the fact that he is pro-TV. Why? Because of his missions connections????

Are they having trouble being honest with themselves, too? Is it possible that underneath their holy motivation for a church free of vice, there is an undergirding of lust for power??

Just my opinion, but I believe they have been looking for a wedge issue that will pull away enough men to give their new ORGANIZATION (emphasis, emphasis) a chance at becoming the most prominent one at the UPC's expense. They got their wedge issue with a resolution that only passed by 80-something votes, and they weren't going to pass up such an opportunity.
Hopefully men who are considering leaving the UPC because they honestly believe the passage of Res 4 violated their godly principles will realize that the WPF may not be as principled as they seek to appear.

Okay, now you can all rip me apart. But please first ask yourself, "Am I really being honest with myself?"

The "Wedge Issue" as PreacherV puts it, reminds me of when a fella named Huey P. Long rocketed to power.

Huey Long's issue was the "Share Our Wealth" program - it was FDR's "New Deal" on steroids.

The position papers on "Share Our Wealth" stated no US citizen would be allowed a personal fortune over 5 million dollars. Everyone would be guaranteed a car, house, refrigerator and a certain amount of property.

"Every Man A King" was Huey's slogan.

Never mind the nightmare logistics and expense to actually implementing this; Huey rode to power and ruled Louisiana with an iron fist, first as governor, then as US Senator with his figurehead, puppet governor in Baton Rouge.

Huey got rich and his main followers and cronies got rich.

He had a couple on his staff and in his posse that were "Share Our Wealth" zealots.

But really ... Huey was ambivalent about "Share Our Wealth" and his main cronies and lieutenants thought the plan was a bunch of bunk.

It was, however, convenient to rally the poor folks.

When Huey was assassinated and his lieutenants took over, eating, drinking and being merry at the public till was their main focus and the true Share Our Wealthers were out on their rear ends.

TV advertising seems to just be a political wedge issue for this Tulsa bunch.

And yeah, those who are bending themselves into pretzels defending this at every turn even to contradicting themselves will weep, wail and gnash their teeth - but "power grab using the nearest convenient issue" seems to accurately describe the goings-on.

[Dora]

Thad, I really do HATE it when you call me a Charismatic!

GRRRRRrrrrrRRRRrrrrRRRRrrrr...

Let the pot stirring continue!!! WHOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Felicity]

Somebody earlier on said.......

What some fail to realize is that, most likely, the vast majority of those who go to Tulsa will remain in the UPC and network with the conservative element represented in Tulsa.

If this is the case then what in the name of time is the point?

Why start a new "fellowship" when you plan to still fellowship and hold license with the group you're leaving!!?

The truth is it all boils down anyway to ....

• an individual walk with God
  
  
• an individual calling
  
  
• an individual anointing
  
  
• an individual ministry

... which is worked out and lived out within the will and purpose of God and in the parameters of some kind of organizational/fellowship structure (for most people) that is problem fraught to some extent because they are made up of and led by "people" after all. Nothing is perfect.

It's probably mostly all about discontent, dissatisfaction and carnality.

I've asked before and got NO answer as to how this new Tulsa deal is going to look or feel any different from the UPC and how it will be any different from the UPC in real and tangible ways 10 years down the road.

There was no answer. Selah.

[bishopnl]

I don't know Elfin, but it may also be that he surprised himself.

I think that's "her" and "herself," actually.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Somebody earlier on said.......If this is the case then what in the name of time is the point?

Why start a new "fellowship" when you plan to still fellowship and hold license with the group you're leaving!!?

The truth is it all boils down anyway to ....

• an individual walk with God
  
  
• an individual calling
  
  
• an individual anointing
  
  
• an individual ministry

... which is worked out and lived out within the will and purpose of God and in the parameters of some kind of organizational/fellowship structure (for most people) that is problem fraught for the most part because they are made up of and led by "people" after all. Nothing is perfect.

It's probably mostly all about discontent, dissatisfaction and carnality.

I've asked before and got NO answer as to how this new Tulsa deal is going to look or feel any different from the UPC and how it will be any different from the UPC in real and tangible ways 10 years down the road.

There was no answer.

Felicity, how can there be an answer? No one seems to know what is going on.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone comments on your bolded statement above.

[Dora]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Somebody earlier on said.......If this is the case then what in the name of time is the point?

Why start a new "fellowship" when you plan to still fellowship and hold license with the group you're leaving!!?

The truth is it all boils down anyway to ....

• an individual walk with God
  
  
• an individual calling
  
  
• an individual anointing
  
  
• an individual ministry

... which is worked out and lived out within the will and purpose of God and in the parameters of some kind of organizational/fellowship structure (for most people) that is problem fraught to some extent because they are made up of and led by "people" after all. Nothing is perfect.

It's probably mostly all about discontent, dissatisfaction and carnality.

I've asked before and got NO answer as to how this new Tulsa deal is going to look or feel any different from the UPC and how it will be any different from the UPC in real and tangible ways 10 years down the road.

There was no answer. Selah.

FELICITY, our very own AFF Polly Anna...

I happen to like Polly Anna's very much!

It really cracks me up when posters like Jekyll and COON get on here and quote Felicity posts and give KUDOS to a nice Christian lady who has bobbed hair, wears make-up, ear-bobs and pantaloons!

As long as she posts on the "RIGHT" it's all good! LOL

And now it's MY TURN to give KUDOS to Mrs. FELICITY!

This is a great post! BRAVO!!!