Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[scotty]

Originally Posted by pelathais

My position is that the "3 Stepper" way is accurate, but incomplete. It ignores the vital aspect of the work of grace that happens (or should happen) simultaneously with our "obedience."

In order to try and hammer down our "3 Stepper" dogma we have traditionally ignored grace to the point that many people question whether or not our Gospel even includes the cross! We respond to those question by skulking about and throwing away a good deal of our literature that would have answered our critics' charges.

Why not bring the cross back in, get back to our roots and invite others to share a blessing!

I don't see this, I mean in my church or congregations around me. I don't know where this is happening but it gets old to be lumped in with the crowd you all are refering to. Who are these "many people" and where are they getting the information that "our" gospel does not include the cross??? (by the way I love that little "our gospel", there is only one)

[Ferd]

No man is saved without first coming to the cross.

No many can be saved without believing the Gospel.


No man will be saved without obeying the Gospel

Peter didnt preach Acts 2:28 on the day of Pentecost. He preached the Gospel (the same thing all bible believers preach)

but when those who heard him preach the Gospel, they asked what they needed to do. Peter told them.

Jesus told Peter that he was the holder of the keys.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Ferd

No man is saved without first coming to the cross.

No many can be saved without believing the Gospel.


No man will be saved without obeying the Gospel

Peter didnt preach Acts 2:28 on the day of Pentecost. He preached the Gospel (the same thing all bible believers preach)

but when those who heard him preach the Gospel, they asked what they needed to do. Peter told them.

Jesus told Peter that he was the holder of the keys.

Exactly Bro. Ferd,
Man must have the "one-stepper belief" to be saved, yet if that same man has that then he will/must obey Act 2-38.

You can not be saved with just one or the other. You must have both.

Its like just because I may have or mention Acts 2-38 on my sig or a post then I get attacked for being all inclusive to that. Yet If I or anyone else on here has Saved by Grace or the Cross on their sig or post they get an amen!!!!
I don't think the 3 steppers are the ones being exclusive here. No 3 stepper has denied being saved by the cross, Acts 2-38 is simply the steps required to practice that belief.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The might be said of you, Joseph. 1 Peter 3:21, not says "baptism saves you" but it tells us how baptism saves us. Brother Price actually did an excellent job pointing that out.

"... not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..." NIV

What Peter is emphasizing here is that you are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. To ignore that is to once again remove the cross from Christianity.

Peter rather emphatically rebukes your insistence on emphasizing the physical aspect of going through the waters of baptism with his statement, "not the removal of dirt from the body..."

Without the work that Jesus Christ has already done for you, and your faith expressed in that work, baptism is just a bath. That's what the Apostles preached.

I don't think you truly intended to take the cross out, but by hammering away at the "3 Stepper" possition without ever allowing for the "One Stepper" point of view, you end up leaving the cross out of the Gospel. We need the truth in balance.

Exactly Pelathais!!!
You have more patience than I do for it seems that their ears are "dull" and will not hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church. But I admire your persistance. The tragedy is that there is "another gospel" being preached that has strayed from that of the apostles but some are too blind [or deceived?] to see it. Remember, it is those who don't receive the love of the truth that will believe a lie. [Contrary to those who persist in saying a love for the truth.] II Thess. 2:10-12
Raven

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by scotty

I don't see this, I mean in my church or congregations around me. I don't know where this is happening but it gets old to be lumped in with the crowd you all are refering to. Who are these "many people" and where are they getting the information that "our" gospel does not include the cross??? (by the way I love that little "our gospel", there is only one)

That depends upon sentence construction.

2 Cor 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Cor 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2 Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Thess 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thess 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1 Thess 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1 Thess 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
1 Thess 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Thess 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are "other" gospels. In the case of the Galatians it was a "Gospel" message that added works to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. By adding works, Paul said that they had "perverted" the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Raven

Exactly Pelathais!!!
You have more patience than I do for it seems that their ears are "dull" and will not hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church. But I admire your persistance. The tragedy is that there is "another gospel" being preached that has strayed from that of the apostles but some are too blind [or deceived?] to see it. Remember, it is those who don't receive the love of the truth that will believe a lie. [Contrary to those who persist in saying a love for the truth.] II Thess. 2:10-12
Raven

It seems that I got the bread crumbs from you just before you posted... we both went to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2!

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The might be said of you, Joseph. 1 Peter 3:21, not says "baptism saves you" but it tells us how baptism saves us. Brother Price actually did an excellent job pointing that out.

"... not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..." NIV

What Peter is emphasizing here is that you are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. To ignore that is to once again remove the cross from Christianity.

Peter rather emphatically rebukes your insistence on emphasizing the physical aspect of going through the waters of baptism with his statement, "not the removal of dirt from the body..."

Without the work that Jesus Christ has already done for you, and your faith expressed in that work, baptism is just a bath. That's what the Apostles preached.

I don't think you truly intended to take the cross out, but by hammering away at the "3 Stepper" possition without ever allowing for the "One Stepper" point of view, you end up leaving the cross out of the Gospel. We need the truth in balance.

I have not left the cross out. It was on the cross that he died for us. It was on the cross where he purchased our salvation.

It is on the Day of Pentecost that we see the plan of Salvation revealed. If some one is going to be saved they are going to repent, get baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost.

Peter says that baptism saves. There are things that happen in the spirit when we are baptized, but you MUST do the physical act for those things to happen.

To the 1 stepper baptism is just a religious traditon and how we do things, but in the Word of God it was a matter of salvation. Come on guys line up with the Bible again if your etenity is important to ya.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That depends upon sentence construction.

(great, I failed grammer, lol)

1 Thess 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1 Thess 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

(now this I like, this verse shows both sides as being all inclusive)

There are "other" gospels. In the case of the Galatians it was a "Gospel" message that added works to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. By adding works, Paul said that they had "perverted" the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If we were having a conversation with those who are lost and outside of Apostolic, I would convey the message of grace and the cross. Then when asked how to be saved I would say to use that belief to fulfill Acts 2-38.
Yet talking on here among ourselves, when I say one or the other I "assume" everyone here knows that the other is present since you are all apostolic as I (or more apostolic as some might say) am.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by scotty

Exactly Bro. Ferd,
Man must have the "one-stepper belief" to be saved, yet if that same man has that then he will/must obey Act 2-38.

You can not be saved with just one or the other. You must have both.

Its like just because I may have or mention Acts 2-38 on my sig or a post then I get attacked for being all inclusive to that. Yet If I or anyone else on here has Saved by Grace or the Cross on their sig or post they get an amen!!!!

Scotty! After all this time, we appear to be brethren after all!

Originally Posted by scotty

I don't think the 3 steppers are the ones being exclusive here. No 3 stepper has denied being saved by the cross, Acts 2-38 is simply the steps required to practice that belief.

Ah, we may be twins seperated at birth.

"3 Steppers" are usually synonymous with exclusivism. Remember at one time, all of "us" were Trinitarians from a variety of backgrounds who were all seeking more of the New Testament's power and practice in our own lives.

Finding more power and some important insights into the practices of the NT church we tried to share these things with our brothers. And we felt indeed that they were our brothers. We were rebuffed at times, at other times we were met with seeming indifference and at other times our new view point prevailed and won new adherents.

But whether they rebuffed us, were indifferent toward us or embraced us; we always called them "brothers" and we were never the ones to build walls within the body of Christ.

Until recently.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by scotty

I guess I am totally confused as to exactly what the argument here is. I quoted off of you Bro. Neck because I enjoy reading your post, they are obviously written from the Spirit.

I see alot of things from the "one-steppers" and from the "three-steppers" that all make sense and are scripture. Maybe there is something I am missing here but seems like everyone is saying the same thing yet arguing over a couple of split hairs.

Scotty,
My original comments were in response to a post from PP.

PP comments were not over split hairs.

Read the first link attached below.

Then someone responed to me and you read my answer to that response.

You would need to back and read the post below....

Nathan

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=717

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=737

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=738

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=740