1. Where do you get the idea that the Holy Spirit will leave a vessel with sin??
2. Where do you get the idea that the Holy Spirit indwells a vessel without sin??
Until the sin nature is dead (i.e. when this body is put in the ground) the paradox remains that the believer is simil ustus et peccatore simultaneously just and sinful.
The perfectionist denies this except when he looks in the mirror.
If the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean vessel, then how does the Holy Spirit dwell in a vessel at all?? If you say that the vessel is unclean until he/she asks for forgiveness...then I would say that that is ignoring one conclusion to make the case for another because the sinner will not repent until he/she is regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
From grace to grave it's all the work of the Holy Spirit, with all the sin in between.
And that is why they call it grace.
a
totally reformed doctrine, Augustianian. Loosely quoted right out of BGs pamphlets along with a few other sigificant reformers.
That was my post to someone else about what repentance means, not my post to you about this verse. Please go back and review your tape and respond to the rest of my post. Thanks
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
totally reformed doctrine, Augustianian. Loosely quoted right out of BGs pamphlets along with a few other sigificant reformers.
How are your tulips doing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustianian
They are growing rather well.
I am reformed but not of the paedo kind even though my nic is augustianian.
speaking of tulips, last spring i bought a pot with 14 in it. they had no dirt, just water. anyway when they died, I put the pot out in the garrage as is.
then this past weekend, i cleaned out that terrible pit and found them.
well, i cleaned it up and found 28! so I have the pot back in the house, next to my brand spanking new AreoGrow and they are sprouting. we shall see...
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
speaking of tulips, last spring i bought a pot with 14 in it. they had no dirt, just water. anyway when they died, I put the pot out in the garrage as is.
then this past weekend, i cleaned out that terrible pit and found them.
well, i cleaned it up and found 28! so I have the pot back in the house, next to my brand spanking new AreoGrow and they are sprouting. we shall see...
Congratulations on your tulips! May grace accompany their growth!
I think you and ReformedDave would find much in agreement then. I do not believe he is paedo either.
Is your background reformed or were you once a traditional Apostolic (not sure that is even a valid term )?
Just curious and certainly I do not expect and answer if you are not comfortable with it.
My background is United Pentecostal... so Im a long way from that. I was raised traditional Apostolic, i.e. full Acts 2:38, although I must say that my late father (who held license with the UPC at one time) had some issue with that if questioned.
I have conversed with ReformedDave already.
I also know Keith4Him, being that we at one time attended the same church, with him being the youth pastor.
God bless you and have a Happy New Year,
a
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
No. Confessing you are a rotten sinner and then turning your direction might be repentance. But confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord....anyone can do that and not really have repented
From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.
My reply to her question about confessing Jesus is Lord. Not believing and confessing, nor confessing your sins. Anyone can confess "Jesus is Lord" and not have repented. However I still did not say that confession and believing does NOT imply repentance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
Well, then, if confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead does not imply that repentance has taken place (that is, that one has turned to God in sorrow), then what does Romans 10:9-10 mean to you, Prax? How do you interpret Paul's directives here?
Notice here you have two things. Confession that Jesus is Lord and belief. True belief I would say implies repentance, but it also implies obedience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I didn't say it does not imply repentance has taken place
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
Sure you did, let's go to the videotape:
The video does not have me saying confession that Jesus is Lord with your mouth AND believing does not imply repentance. However I still assert that anyone can say with their mouth "Jesus is Lord" and not be repented. Even a Muslim and an Athiest can say those words and not mean it.
If a literal insistance on this becomes a works baised faith or salvation by one's own effort. I have seen evangelicals get even atheists to repeat those words and declare they were saved no matter what protests they were to make. Those words are meaningless without the faith and intent of the heart.
My point was then, which nobody addressed...that just as one can say this implies repentance others can claim this must also imply obedience to baptism and other biblical mandates. Not only that, just as confession saves ONLY due to the faith of the heart and not the pronouncments of the words...some here can make the same arguments concerning water baptism...ie the water has no saving property, nor the pronouncments of the words "IN Jesus name" apart from faith.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
My point was then, which nobody addressed...that just as one can say this implies repentance others can claim this must also imply obedience to baptism and other biblical mandates.
Actually, I claim the exact opposite. Believing necessarily not only implies the absence of obedience to baptism and other biblical mandates but conspicuously demands the absence of such obedience...or it is not justifying faith. It has to be a faith void of human action. The reason being that human action cannot lead to such obedience that would satisfy the demands of the Law, because human deeds, whether righteous or sinful, cannot warrant or merit the Father's forgiveness nor His declaration of righteousness. It has to be a foreign righteousness.
Not only that, just as confession saves ONLY due to the faith of the heart and not the pronouncments of the words...
Agreed
some here can make the same arguments concerning water baptism...ie the water has no saving property, nor the pronouncments of the words "IN Jesus name" apart from faith.
They absolutely can since baptism holds no causal relationship with justification whether 'with' faith or 'apart' from faith. Only faith justifies even before, after, or without one toe getting wet.
God bless,
a
__________________
"Love God and do what you please"
-St. Augustine
sola Christus
sola gratia
sola fide
sola deo gloria
Anyone, when the serpent was placed on the pole in the wilderness.... did the children of Israel need to be baptized and speak in tongues in order to be healed?
The answer to this is pertinent to John 3:14-18 and to the point of this thread.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I'd really like to hear someone from the water/spirit persuasion exegete these passages. In light of the fact that John 3 specifically speaks of being born again, the author's comments after John 3:1-8 are relevant to the discussion as well.
Explain the correlation the author makes between the faith alone which brought healing in the wilderness and faith in Christ which brings eternal life.
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