Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)?? - Page 98

SDG · #**971** 01-01-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

II. Then there is the issue of whether or not this "burial" indeed regenerates us ... is it efficacious in quickening us by His Spirit into new birth, albeit partially.

Acts 10 still is the smoking gun ... against 3 step theology. If baptism is a burial of the dead man ... necessary to rid the man of the body of sin and wipe his sin stain ... then how could the Spirit of God quicken unto righteousness and life that which is still dead?

Does the indwelling of the Holy Ghost ["resurrrection"} represent the final piece of the 3 step puzzle that must be re-enacted that raises us into new life? ... does His Spirit do this while not setting us free of the law of sin and death or putting to death the deeds/sins of the body? (Romans 8:13)

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Romans 8 tells us:

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in he likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
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1. In Acts 10, we find those in the house of Cornelius showing evidence of being indwelt w/ the Holy Spirit yet had not buried their body of sin ... or carnal man. Some would even say because they had not been baptized they are not yet declared righteous/justified and/or their slate not wiped clean through a properly administered baptism that would effectuate sin remission.

Furthermore, the sacramental mindset [a rite that mediates grace] says that unless one does not have the Spirit of Christ, evidenced thru tongues, they are not His ... yet we see Cornelius being declared His, prior to water baptism.
(Romans 8:9)

We see the the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus setting him free from the law of sin and of death prior to re-enacting a burial of the body of sin???? (Romans 8:2)

2. Also we see that he is declared righteous before God and he is alive because of Christ's imputed righteousness ... by the Spirit indwelling. ....

Romans 8:10 - If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

3. Finally if re-enactment theology is God-ordained ... repentance is death, baptism is burial and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the resurrection ...

Then how can Cornelius through his being filled w/ the Holy Ghost have circumvented this process?

It is the initial indwelling of the Spirit of God that puts to DEATH THE DEEDS OF THE BODY SO THAT WE MAY BE QUICKENED TO LIFE, or Destroys the body of sin (Romans 6:6) ...

Romans 13 .... for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

These gaping holes in their theology show that one, namely Cornelius and those in his house, can be declared righteous, quickened unto life, put to death the deeds of the body, be declared His, set free from the law of sin and death .... not condemened in Christ Jesus ... PRIOR TO BEING FULLY SAVED ... REGENERATED ...OR COMPLETING THE NEW BIRTH PROCESS AS THEY PRESENT IT.

Cornelius was declared a son of God ... born of God ... prior to baptism. With all the priveleges ... full access to our Father and the inheritance of new life.

Romans 8
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

All this before being BURIED INTO CHRIST and having the blood applied in his life???

One last bump. See ya soon.

Barb · #**972** 01-01-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

One last bump. See ya soon.

You don't have to do this, you know...praying for you, Daniel...

scotty · #**973** 01-01-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

When I first joined the UPCI ministry I made certain that I would not be required to automatically condemn all other Christians to hell. I was satisfied on that point by the Required Reading material. I then launched whole heartedly into an aggressive advocacy of Acts 2:38 in ministry. I was never a "big time" preacher, but I was known in the fellowship for my Bible teaching and doctrinal stance. Part of my zeal was fueled by the knowledge that I was NOT passing judgement, but that I was preaching a message of grace and reconcilliation.

In time, I watched as others took care of the "passing judgment" for me. And then even the Required Reading materials were quietly changed and good men were driven out of the fellowship. Finally one of the "holier than thous" asked me to help cover the adultery of a buddy of his. I could no longer find any zeal to support these guys.

Again, I am sorry for what some may have went through at various churches but this is NOT properly descriptive of the UPC I have been apart of for 37 years. I have not seen this kind of attitude nor heard it preached, I really don't care for the generalization. Its getting to the point I start wondering how much is actually true.

LadyChocolate · #**974** 01-01-2008, 11:19 AM

except this:

pelathais · #**975** 01-01-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Again, I am sorry for what some may have went through at various churches but this is NOT properly descriptive of the UPC I have been apart of for 37 years. I have not seen this kind of attitude nor heard it preached, I really don't care for the generalization. Its getting to the point I start wondering how much is actually true.

Get the tapes from any PSR conference. And you should have been at some of the "after service" fellowships.

Go to http://www.therockchurch.org and download the featured speaker from the "No Limits" 06 Conference. Call that same evangelist up and ask him what he thinks about David Bernard starting a church in Austin, TX.

Try to get some of the tapes for the past AMC conferences. They are available to "ministers only." Gotta keep that stuff out of general circulation.

Get Jesse William's message from the 1992 General Conference and pay particular attention to the part where he decries the "smutty jokes" that were then current among a particular segment of the Apostolic ministry.

There was one story in particular that the aforementioned "Apostolic" who preached in the same "valley" as Clyde Haney used to tell. He told it with such mirth that it got him a rather off-color nickname that I cannot post here. The nickname came from the punch-line of the joke.

Sam · #**976** 01-01-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjones

don't talk about me like that... I am only 48 until Jan 26... that is a long way from 50.

48, my oldest son turned 48 in November.
You're just a kid.

scotty · #**977** 01-01-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Get the tapes from any PSR conference. And you should have been at some of the "after service" fellowships.

Go to http://www.therockchurch.org and download the featured speaker from the "No Limits" 06 Conference. Call that same evangelist up and ask him what he thinks about David Bernard starting a church in Austin, TX.

Try to get some of the tapes for the past AMC conferences. They are available to "ministers only." Gotta keep that stuff out of general circulation.

Get Jesse William's message from the 1992 General Conference and pay particular attention to the part where he decries the "smutty jokes" that were then current among a particular segment of the Apostolic ministry.

There was one story in particular that the aforementioned "Apostolic" who preached in the same "valley" as Clyde Haney used to tell. He told it with such mirth that it got him a rather off-color nickname that I cannot post here. The nickname came from the punch-line of the joke.

See , I thank God I live, worship, and attend UPC away from all these Mega churches and all the "leaders" that know each other so well, and the political side of it all. I am more thankful of my pastor than ever before for sheilding us from such nonsense and focusing on what God wants for us.

What a novel idea!

Aquila · #**978** 01-01-2008, 11:50 AM

If one were to ask specifically what a "one stepper" Apostolic believes regarding salvation, how would one explain it?

For example a "three stepper" Apostolic would write:

In order to be saved one must:

- Repent of Sin

- Be water baptized, by emersion, in Jesus name

- Receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost

pelathais · #**979** 01-01-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

See , I thank God I live, worship, and attend UPC away from all these Mega churches and all the "leaders" that know each other so well, and the political side of it all. I am more thankful of my pastor than ever before for sheilding us from such nonsense and focusing on what God wants for us.

What a novel idea!

Indeed.

Praxeas · #**980** 01-01-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Price

OK, I was lurking for a moment before I needed to start getting ready, but when I said this, I logged back on and decided to throw this in.

Bro. Epley, that was so far below the belt, it was not funny. You know better than to do this, my dear brother. This is just uncalled for.

Interjection here. BP why complain about SE doing this but not when others do it? Your complaints are one sided.