Romans 10:9

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I know that was what you were saying. You had faith. God heard you because of you faith. Your faith is what justifies you, not your good works.

But I didn't have faith in Christ!!!!!!


I only had faith that I was talking to God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

But I didn't have faith in Christ!!!!!!


I only had faith that I was talking to God.

Did Abraham have faith in Christ or in God?

Mar 11:21 And Peter remembered and said to him, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered."
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Did Abraham have faith in Christ or in God?

Mar 11:21 And Peter remembered and said to him, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered."
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answered them, "Have faith in God.

How are we imputed Christ's righteousness if we don't even confess Him? How can we be justified by faith, the faith that is in Christ?

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom 3:22

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How are we imputed Christ's righteousness if we don't even confess Him? How can we be justified by faith, the faith that is in Christ?

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom 3:22

Did Abraham confess Christ?

How did God impute righteousness to David?
Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Rom 4:19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body already dead (being about a hundred years old) or the deadening of Sarah's womb.
Rom 4:20 He did not stagger at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Rom 4:21 and being fully persuaded that what God had promised, He was also able to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for him alone that it was imputed to him,
Rom 4:24 but for us also to whom it is to be imputed, to the ones believing on Him who has raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 who was delivered because of our offenses and was raised for our justification.

Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God."
Jas 2:24 You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Did Abraham confess Christ?

How did God impute righteousness to David?
Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Rom 4:19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body already dead (being about a hundred years old) or the deadening of Sarah's womb.
Rom 4:20 He did not stagger at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Rom 4:21 and being fully persuaded that what God had promised, He was also able to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for him alone that it was imputed to him,
Rom 4:24 but for us also to whom it is to be imputed, to the ones believing on Him who has raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 who was delivered because of our offenses and was raised for our justification.

Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God."
Jas 2:24 You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Tell it brother. Glory to God.

[Adino]

Mizpeh, you are correct. The imputation comes through faith in Christ alone. It was God's promise of the coming Messiah Abraham believed. The testimony of the Father is of Christ. Imputation comes when we accept the testimony God gave of his Son. It was Abraham's faith in the coming Christ which was imputed to him for righteousness.

Gen 15:4-6

And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

1John 5:10-12

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

We have faith in God by accepting his word/testimony to be true.

Prax, do you believe ALL Orthodox Jews are justified because of their faith in YHWH?

[Adino]

Btw, how a person can be in right standing with God and yet be in wrong relationship is beyond me. Yes, he can be under the umbrella of God's righteousness and still have faults, but his relationship is not something yet to be established. It is the right relationship (not our personal rightness) which brings the imputation of righteousness. It is a relationship established by a loving TRUST.

We come into right standing with God when we come into a right relationship with him by faith alone.

[Adino]

Mizpeh, YES forgiveness and imputation of righteousness are connected. We are forgiven because the righteousness of Christ (the righteous blood of Christ) has been sprinkled on the altar and is imputed to us. We enter into this forgiveness by faith in the work of Christ.

Our faith in Christ's resurrection is a faith in the fact that God has accepted the work of sin remission performed by Christ on the Cross. He was the Lamb who took away the sins of the world. If God had not accepted the sacrifice.... Christ would not have been resurrected. The Good News in the death, burial and resurrection is that the resurrection proves God has forgiven us through Christ. It proves that Christ's work was effective.

Those who accept the testimony of God by accepting Christ accept the forgiveness of God in Christ. All who believe (all who trust in his forgiveness*) are given the same promised gift Christ received of the Father in Acts 2:33. Those who believe receive eternal life (John 3:6, 15-16, 36; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26). He that hath the Son hath life.

If we require anything beyond a simple trust in what Christ already did to obtain forgiveness we say that what he did was inadequate. Christ meant it when he said, "It is finished." Those who trust in this reality SHALL receive the gift of God which is eternal life.


*Baptism is the response of those who have accepted this forgiveness. Baptism is the response of those who have a good conscience toward God (1Peter 3:21). Forgiveness does not come because of baptism, baptism comes because of forgiveness.

[Adino]

I should clarify my first post. I was mistaken to give the impression that Isaac was the "coming Christ". While he was certainly a Messianic figure he was not the Christ. The promises were made to Abraham and his "seed". Paul says that this "seed" was Christ (Galatians 3:16). The promise of God still dealt with the ultimate child of promise, the coming Messiah.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh, you are correct. The imputation comes through faith in Christ alone. It was God's promise of the coming Messiah Abraham believed. The testimony of the Father is of Christ. Imputation comes when we accept the testimony God gave of his Son. It was Abraham's faith in the coming Christ which was imputed to him for righteousness.

Gen 15:4-6

And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

1John 5:10-12

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

We have faith in God by accepting his word/testimony to be true.

Prax, do you believe ALL Orthodox Jews are justified because of their faith in YHWH?

No, but is that relevant? The bible clearly says Abraham was justified by his faith in God. He was looking ahead. Orthodox Jews have outright rejected Christ as Messiah. Christ is the Logos of God. He is God's representative....there is a reason why Jesus said "No man comes to the Father but by me" and "I am the Way, the truth and the Life"..Did Abraham need to have read all the works of Christ...the gospels....the account of his death, burial and resurrection, in order to be saved?

Remember Im talking about before the incarnation. The issue that is being missed here is they were justified by FAITH alone not by works. You said Mizpeh is right, but it seems she was arguing justification happens once they repent and are baptized....and I am saying it happens at faith before all else