Nate Wilson...The Rock Church Sign Team....Beautiful!!!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by CC1

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

I agree with both posts, and have seen both in live service...signing with a song and interpretative 'signing'.

With both, as with everything we do for Kingdom sake, it is the anointing which makes the difference.

The group from my church does the ASL signing and it is very effective...

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

You warmed my heart by letting me know that some good man is about to eat a good homecooked meal!

I am patiently waiting for my daughter and her husband to come visit tonight. She is cooking me a meal she cooked for the first time last week and it was one of the best meals I have ever eaten in my life hands down. Including expensive restaurants! The scary thing is that she "winged it" from a recipe she saw on TV and we are not sure she can recreate it. We will find out tonight.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by CC1

You warmed my heart by letting me know that some good man is about to eat a good homecooked meal!

I am patiently waiting for my daughter and her husband to come visit tonight. She is cooking me a meal she cooked for the first time last week and it was one of the best meals I have ever eaten in my life hands down. Including expensive restaurants! The scary thing is that she "winged it" from a recipe she saw on TV and we are not sure she can recreate it. We will find out tonight.

What is it?!

[stmatthew]

I guess that all these folks will now be lost according to KH unless they leave this dissenters church and go find a UPCI church so they can be saved.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I guess that all these folks will now be lost according to KH unless they leave this dissenters church and go find a UPCI church so they can be saved.

Is it just me, or is your attitude a little, let's just say "off" lately?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Is it just me, or is your attitude a little, let's just say "off" lately?

Just putting these things in the perspective that KH has placed them. If he is going to vilify the Tulsa group and say that they are going to ruin ministries and lead them away from God, then it is evident that he believes that any that follows NW is doomed unless they move to the Church (UPCI).

[Tina]

[Barb]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Just putting these things in the perspective that KH has placed them. If he is going to vilify the Tulsa group and say that they are going to ruin ministries and lead them away from God, then it is evident that he believes that any that follows NW is doomed unless they move to the Church (UPCI).

Matt, I haven't been reading much of this lately, but can you point me to a reference where Bro. H has said the above?!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Barb

Matt, I haven't been reading much of this lately, but can you point me to a reference where Bro. H has said the above?!

And, even though he hasn't "vilified" anyone, why is wrong of him to be defensive when people have been actively recruiting men from the organization that he is the Superintendant of?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Barb

Matt, I haven't been reading much of this lately, but can you point me to a reference where Bro. H has said the above?!

Sis Barb,

Here is KH's letter for your review. It is obvious in his letter that he places those that are structuring the Tulsa group as out of Gods will, and on a path to destruction, and any that follow them will come to ruin.

Originally Posted by philjones

I am posting a letter from Bro. Haney by permission. I received the letter from a recipient in email.

Subject: Letter from Brother Haney
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:51:33 -0600


January 4, 2008

Dear brethren,

I want to thank you for all that you have done and are doing for the Kingdom. As a movement ordained of God, we have been in the midst of the storm, but I can assure you that the storm is ABATING. As Moses, Caleb, Joshua, Nehemiah and numerous others of God’s Generals have stood at the forefront of an emotional storm; when a handful of voices among them sought to bring division, they as God’s Generals, spoke with Authority & Assurance! God was with them, and the storm passed over; thus, it will be the same with us.

I have been to a number of meetings in the last month and a half, and my heart has been greatly warmed by the host of ministers who have come to me personally to assure me of their loyalty and that they were in much prayer. They could not understand why men would conduct themselves in this manner. This is the feeling of most of the UPCI. I was moved by their love and prayerfulness for God’s work, and my heart was touched by their spirit. I felt that we, as God’s leaders, need to seize the moment and speak calm to the storm, and also discourage any of our brethren from going to the Tulsa event. No good would come from their going - only that they would be used. At this point, it is time for the Generals to forcefully and clearly—without hesitation—strengthen the hands of God’s people.

There is no panic or fear, but only concern that some precious ministers may be isolated for some reason or other from the main stream of the Fellowship. It could be by distance or lack of closeness to fellow ministers, and all they know is what they read on some web site or what comes in the mail. Neither of these gives the true picture. Several men, whose names were listed in the items being mailed out and distributed, contacted me and were greatly concerned that their names had been included. In some cases, men said they had not given their consent; in other cases, that they called or notified whomever was in charge and told them NOT to list their names, but they were listed in spite of their protest.

The brethren of our Districts must be assured that the church, the United Pentecostal Church International, is blessed of God and stands staunch as a Holiness movement, a revival movement, and a doctrinally sound movement, and that there is no compromise. As a matter of fact, we have history, as an organization, to prove this. Each generation in times of crisis has risen to the challenge; therefore, we will, and have done so also.

From my experience in traveling the length and breadth of our Fellowship, it is my opinion that we are as solid, strong, and as passionate as we have ever been. Any new group attempting to start will do so without history or track record, and it is yet to be proven what they would really do in the midst of crisis. In the history of the UPCI, there have been other groups who have attempted to do this also, but have failed to rally to the challenges, and thus came to naught.

In the final analysis and when the dust settles, we will be a stronger organization and a more passionate movement. We will be more united against worldliness and more united for the cause of World Evangelism - proclaiming the unadulterated Gospel of the New Testament as we impact this world for the cause of the Kingdom. The United Pentecostal Church is growing rapidly. New churches and daughter works are being planted each day, and a host of new ministers are being added to the already great number. For instance, our General Secretary, Brother Jones, just spoke to me and said that since General Conference, we have lost 27 ministers due to the passing of the resolution. In the same period of time, we have licensed 128 new ministers. The church is strong and will not, and must not, be distracted from our real mission: to reach our cities, states, and the nations of the world with TRUTH and an uncompromising message.

In conclusion, in reminiscing over my life, I have found that each trial and each valley I have journeyed through, that AFTER the trial, I have been much stronger and more blessed. I do believe that there is a great deal of good that will be achieved as a movement when we pass to the other side of this storm, and we will be bonded closer together and our purpose will have greater clarity.

For a United Church and respectfully yours,

Kenneth F. Haney

KFH/jh

There you have it. Thank you Bro. Baughman!