Nate Wilson...The Rock Church Sign Team....Beautiful!!!

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by papapraiz

There is really little difference - This is Television ... it is telling it with vision.

You are 100% correct.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Also a shame Pentecostals know so little about our Jewish roots....that is where dancing comes from... dancing was a way of life to them...

I am still weeping...that was so beautiful...

You know Sister I have thought the same thing.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by IBCrazier2

I would like to know, when doing a sign song, when does it go from worship to putting on a show? I can remember, out of the 20 years of being at the church I am at, haveing deaf people attend our church maybe 10 times! With that being said we have people do sign songs, have sign choirs, etc..... every couple of weeks it seems. I will say at times it can be moving and when from the heart and as worship it can be wonderful, but what is the purpose if it is not for worship or ministry?

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by yogi

I agree completely!!! It really is dancing, which is biblical!!!

You should see the "Hands of Praise" team from Hales church in Denver do this. They are all young people and did it at the Colorado Youth Convention. It was simply amazing. Much better than Wilsons group

I'm sure if a kid from the Rock church read this it would be hurtful. You should have bragged on Hale's and left it at that. To compare was unkind IMO.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Tina

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

There is NOTHING wrong with dance, it is biblical...and that is just what dancing is, a show, for God. Remember that.

[Monkeyman]

If you don't think the Holy Ghost helicopter ain't a show....sheesh!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Tina

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by CC1

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

[IBCrazier2]

Sorry Tina .... didn't mean to get you in trouble

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by IBCrazier2

Sorry Tina .... didn't mean to get you in trouble

LOL I can't blame you.... I get into enough trouble without any help.