Significance of Names and Persons

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

Context is all that matters.

But notice it says that because all power (which one could say also includes authority) has been given to Jesus, we are to baptize in that power and/or authority. It has nothing with saying the name "Jesus" like some magical incantation as some people insist.

Nobody said anything about a need to utter a name. The issue is whether or not name represents a person and clearly since the authority is given TO him and name is used in the context of that authority then thats how I see it

Yes, and the Aramaic form of that name is essentially the same as the name of Moses' successor following the Exodus: Yehoshua or (to use the English equivalent) Joshua.

Right....but it was still HIS name.

In the OT God speaks of the temple saying he would put his name there...isn't that where the priest met the presence of the Lord?

But there is nothing particularly special about the fact that Luke just happened to refer to the names to count persons any more than there is something particularly special about referring to people as "souls" (as in "the ship sank and all the souls onboard were lost").

It would show a precedent I believe that bible writters can say "name" and be refering to the person who has that name.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Nobody said anything about a need to utter a name. The issue is whether or not name represents a person and clearly since the authority is given TO him and name is used in the context of that authority then thats how I see it

I know YOU didn't specifically say there was the need to utter a name. The fact of the matter is, though, that many oneness folks do, in fact, believe that a name must be uttered. Mizpeh, for example, said "There is no power or authority without using the name."

Right....but it was still HIS name.

The point I was making was that there was nothing particularly special about the actual name itself. The name itself does not have magical powers when it is uttered.

In the OT God speaks of the temple saying he would put his name there...isn't that where the priest met the presence of the Lord?

Yes, that is where the priest entered into the Lord's presence.

It would show a precedent I believe that bible writters can say "name" and be refering to the person who has that name.

A name is nothing more than a label that is attached to an individual person. Again, there is nothing special about the fact that Luke said "the number of the names."

Originally Posted by mizpeh

More often than not if they represented God to someone else then the prophets did speak in the name of the Lord: Thus saith the LORD is found in over 441 places in the OT in the KJV.

The name of the law is a poor example because it does not represent a person or God.

But just because they said "Thus saith the Lord" frequently, that does not mean they spoke His NAME - particularly given that the NAME was considered so sacred to the Jews that they often substituted adonai for it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

A name is nothing more than a label that is attached to an individual person. Again, there is nothing special about the fact that Luke said "the number of the names."

RIGHT! Names in the bible represent PERSONS. This is how Luke can tell us how many PERSONS were present by counting the number of names.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

RIGHT! Names in the bible represent PERSONS. This is how Luke can tell us how many PERSONS were present by counting the number of names.

Okay, so, remind me again of what your point was in all of this. It doesn't seem to be particularly relevant to me that names refer to individual people.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Chan

Okay, so, remind me again of what your point was in all of this. It doesn't seem to be particularly relevant to me that names refer to individual people.

lol...it's just one way the bible can express the number of persons present. Perhaps someone could have done the same thing with the Trinity if there was such a thing....you know like John could have said "there are three He's" because he certian did not say "there are three hypostatis"

Maybe Jesus could have said "in the names of the Father, son and Holy Ghost" if the intention was to express three persons

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Chan

But just because they said "Thus saith the Lord" frequently, that does not mean they spoke His NAME - particularly given that the NAME was considered so sacred to the Jews that they often substituted adonai for it.

Is there a site you know of where I can read about how the Jews substituted the name of the Lord? Because the Bible teaches in the OT to call upon His name. 1 Chron 16:8, Psalm 99:6, Psalm 105:1, Isaiah 12:4.

How is it possible for the name of the Lord to be a strong tower, and for the righteous to run into that name for refuge, if you don't call upon the name to call to attention the One who answers to that name? I don't believe the name of the Lord is magic. The power of the name of Jesus is the One who answers to that name, not the name itself.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Is there a site you know of where I can read about how the Jews substituted the name of the Lord? Because the Bible teaches in the OT to call upon His name. 1 Chron 16:8, Psalm 99:6, Psalm 105:1, Isaiah 12:4.

How is it possible for the name of the Lord to be a strong tower, and for the righteous to run into that name for refuge, if you don't call upon the name to call to attention the One who answers to that name? I don't believe the name of the Lord is magic. The power of the name of Jesus is the One who answers to that name, not the name itself.

Everywhere you see LORD it IS the name. They must have called on that name. It was a later superstition to say HaShem or write "Adonia" instead of the name

[Praxeas]

This just occurred to me...when Jesus taught to pray he said "Our Father...hallowed be your name"...

Is that not another way of saying "Give God the Glory" or "Give to Him the Glory due to Him"? When we praise His name are we not praising Him personally?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This just occurred to me...when Jesus taught to pray he said "Our Father...hallowed be your name"...

Is that not another way of saying "Give God the Glory" or "Give to Him the Glory due to Him"? When we praise His name are we not praising Him personally?

Is the name, "Father", the name we are hallowing? Or is the name of the Father, Jesus, and the name we are to reverence is the name of Jesus?