------The Parousia of Jesus Christ----------

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rev

(Rev 14:14) And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
(Rev 14:15) And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
(Rev 14:16) And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
(Rev 14:17) And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

The earth was reaped before the judgment on Jerusalem!

Originally Posted by mfblume

Do you mean to say that IMPLIES the DEAD are involved? Are you basing your doctrine on an assumed IMPLICATION?

"REAPED" does not necessarily refer to the dead, brother. Why did you imply the DEAD are involved? You have to insert that thought, since the bible is not saying it.

Gathering people in protection, which Christ said he was willing to do with Jerusalem, but she would not, is not the same as raising the dead for white throne judgment.

You asked me for scripture to prove my point, so I now ask you to prove that REAPING refers to resurrecting the dead in all cases.

Brother Blume,
I'm confused with these thoughts.

Reading Rev's comment above - "The earth was reaped before the judgment on Jerusalem!"

I'm reading Matthew 13:30, with the thought that the wheat and tares grow together.

Matthew 13:30 "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Does Rev 14 and Matthew 13 tie in together? Where do the tares stand as opposed to the dead in the book of Rev.?

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

More claims with no evidence? I never even heard of anyone saying the THREE sets of scriptures you provided in rev 14, 19 and 20 were of the same event, let alone considered it. So you cannot speak of "any honest hearted person". I did not stop proposing futurism in favour of partial preterism because I wanted to. And neither do I reject full preterism in favour of partial preterism because I wanted to. how can you make such wild accusations of any dishonesty on my part?

Just explain scripture, Rev. Please stop judging intentions that only God knows perfectly well.

At least you are consistant in being wrong! Here is the 3rd post on this thread by Lost & Found....

A simple answer is: “YES!”

Look at this:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Here Jesus is said to be coming in “like manner” as they saw Him go. They did not see a horse or throne at Jesus’ ascension. That makes this passage problematic if each of these occurrences were to ‘literally’ take place at Jesus’ Parousia. Since God’s Word is always in agreement one with another, we need to look to see how these do agree. The first step in this is to ask whether the issue in Acts 1 is the ‘cloud’ or is it the way in which Jesus departed? If it is the ‘cloud,’ then the ‘horse’ and ‘throne’ conflict; but if it’s about the way Jesus ascended, then we find agreement. This conformity comes when one sees the ‘cloud,’ ‘horse,’ and ‘throne’ are not speaking of literal instances, but are instead referring to biblical imagery. This is the same hermeneutic used elsewhere when interpreting the meaning of the prophetic language of the Bible.

So your answer is; each of these is in agreement with what would occur during Jesus’ coming. The ‘cloud’ is glory; the ‘horse’ is war; the ‘throne’ is authority. To see this simply look up how the Bible already uses these images in prophetic language. The Bible always interprets itself if a person is willing to study it through.

[Rev]

You did read the title to this thread didn't you?

You said.......

"But to judge out of books and to have the dead raised to be judged so by having THEM BROUGHT to the throne, is not the same as Jesus COMING TO sinners and judging localized judgments on peoples."

So according to your doctrine at the first Parousia Jesus comes and does a localized judgment.

At then at the next Parousia is the white throne judgment!

So if the word Parousia refers to the 2nd. Coming of Jesus Christ that would mean that.....

At the first 2nd. Coming of Jesus Christ it was a local judgment.

At the 2nd 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ was the white throne judgment!

I'm sure that makes sense to you but to no one else!

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Blume,
I'm confused with these thoughts.

Reading Rev's comment above - "The earth was reaped before the judgment on Jerusalem!"

I'm reading Matthew 13:30, with the thought that the wheat and tares grow together.



Does Rev 14 and Matthew 13 tie in together? Where do the tares stand as opposed to the dead in the book of Rev.?

Not only the wheat and the tares but the sheep and goats. Where the goats are cast into the lake of fire (Mat 25:41) and the sheep enter into the kingdom! Wonder what kingdom that is?

It's not only wheat and tares but also sheep and goats, fish, etc.

Originally Posted by Rev

Any honest hearted person would agree that all four sets of scriptures are of the same event.

I'm an honest hearted person, and I don't agree all four are the same event.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by The teacher

I'm an honest hearted person, and I don't agree all four are the same event.

So you disagree with Lost and found, and me, so?

Also, most of this discussion was between Bloom and me.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by The teacher

I'm an honest hearted person, and I don't agree all four are the same event.

You must also agree with bloom that there are 2, 3, or 4 Parousias of the Lord!

I don't think so!

Originally Posted by Rev

So you disagree with Lost and found, and me, so?

If you all believe the four references represent the same event, then yes, I disagree.

Also, most of this discussion was between Bloom and me.

Is this a suggestion that I should not voice my opinion on this open forum?

Originally Posted by Rev

You must also agree with bloom that there are 2, 3, or 4 Parousias of the Lord!

I don't think so!

I agree with Bro. Blume (not bloom) that the Lord has come in judgment on more than one occassion, but those do not connote the White Throne Judgment which is still a future event.

For instance, Jeremiah Chp. 4 depicts the Lord sending Nebuchadnezzar against Jerusalem in judgment, but this is not the White Throne judgment. Also note the language used:

Jer 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

God bless.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by The teacher

I agree with Bro. Blume (not bloom) that the Lord has come in judgment on more than one occassion, but those do not connote the White Throne Judgment which is still a future event.

For instance, Jeremiah Chp. 4 depicts the Lord sending Nebuchadnezzar against Jerusalem in judgment, but this is not the White Throne judgment. Also note the language used:


God bless.

There is only one Parousia!