I don't want to bore the rest of the forum with my story for the millionth time, so I will give you the short version. If you are the poster former known as Elias or Isais or something like that, you may remember me under my previous user name "Michlow", anyway here is my story in as few words as I can muster.
Didn't know God. Was shown a God of fear and Judgement, whose approval must be earned through constant vigilance and works. Came to the realization that either God was either bad and worthy of rejection, or as hence unknown. Spent most of a year angry and not wanting much to do with religious things. Began a new journey....
I thought you were Mich! I just didn't want to put my foot in my mouth if I was wrong (which, as you well know, is extremely rare! lol)
Besides these here issues of cosmic importance, I hope you are doing well?
I can't argue with your statement. However, I feel like I spent an inordinate amount of time demanding the right to walk my journey at my own pace. (Again, not implying you, just in general)
Do I understand you to be saying you were trying to understand God and people around you were pressuring you to just forget about all that and 'trust me' on it all?
Morality is relative - relative to God. But that's where the buck stops, imo.
That's an interesting point. It seems to me that, if we are to consider God's character (as you said you have), almost every human being in the world is relatively more moral than God! (Assuming one believes that God is busy at work in the affairs of man, and assuming one believes all the Bible stories. I don't know anyone who would kill babies for any reason, let alone to prove that he was powerful or to make himself famous, as God did in Exodus.)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
That's an interesting point. It seems to me that, if we are to consider God's character (as you said you have), almost every human being in the world is relatively more moral than God! (Assuming one believes that God is busy at work in the affairs of man, and assuming one believes all the Bible stories. I don't know anyone who would kill babies for any reason, let alone to prove that he was powerful or to make himself famous, as God did in Exodus.)
No, almost everyone in the world is 'relatively' more moral than God according to your standard.
I take it you just can't get over the Exodus events, eh?
A lot of people have accused the Jews of being rather vicious people for maintaining a religious tradition that commemorates the slaughter of the first born of everyone but their own people, by the hand of their own god.... not to mention the whole Purim thing... or of glorying in the mass murder/genocide of practically the entire Amorite/Canaanite peoples on orders from their god not to spare anyone, man, woman, OR child...
But then again, everyone is faithful to his god, one way or the other.
That's an interesting point. It seems to me that, if we are to consider God's character (as you said you have), almost every human being in the world is relatively more moral than God! (Assuming one believes that God is busy at work in the affairs of man, and assuming one believes all the Bible stories. I don't know anyone who would kill babies for any reason, let alone to prove that he was powerful or to make himself famous, as God did in Exodus.)
Timmy,
Just not real sure why you would dare to think you understand or know the reasons why God does what he does. God is not and never has been on a power trip to prove he was powerful or to make himself famous as you would have others to believe.
What happened in Exodus was just like it is today; we have a choice to do right or suffer the consequences of our behaviors. God made a way of escape for the Jewish people and even Pharoah and his people. Pharoah chose to defy God.
In presenting your case be careful not to speak against the God many of us serve. It is offensive.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
Timmy,
Just not real sure why you would dare to think you understand or know the reasons why God does what he does. God is not and never has been on a power trip to prove he was powerful or to make himself famous as you would have others to believe.
His reasons are spelled out very clearly in the Bible. That's how I "dare". I was paraphrasing:
Exodus 9:14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
Quote:
What happened in Exodus was just like it is today; we have a choice to do right or suffer the consequences of our behaviors. God made a way of escape for the Jewish people and even Pharoah and his people. Pharoah chose to defy God.
Pharaoh did not have a choice. God knew, given that the request was simply for a three days' journey to offer sacrifices (not the real intent, but that was the story God told Moses to give Pharaoh), Pharaoh would have granted the request. Again, this is not my speculation. It is in the Bible:
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
Quote:
In presenting your case be careful not to speak against the God many of us serve. It is offensive.
Sincerely,
Rhoni
I am not speaking against God. I don't believe God committed those atrocities. Yes, I am speaking against the idea that the Bible is inspired and infallible. I am sorry if that offends you. As I've said several times, if I am not welcome here, the admins just have to say the word, and I'm out. No hard feelings, either! It's their forum.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
His reasons are spelled out very clearly in the Bible. That's how I "dare". I was paraphrasing:
Exodus 9:14 For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. 15 For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth. 16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
Pharaoh did not have a choice. God knew, given that the request was simply for a three days' journey to offer sacrifices (not the real intent, but that was the story God told Moses to give Pharaoh), Pharaoh would have granted the request. Again, this is not my speculation. It is in the Bible:
Exodus 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
I am not speaking against God. I don't believe God committed those atrocities. Yes, I am speaking against the idea that the Bible is inspired and infallible. I am sorry if that offends you. As I've said several times, if I am not welcome here, the admins just have to say the word, and I'm out. No hard feelings, either! It's their forum.
Timmy,
Don't get all paranoid I always wondered why God hardened Pharoah's heart...must have had a higher purpose than I understand. I can't see your attitude and read your non-verbals...but thank-you for taking time to explain
Don't get all paranoid I always wondered why God hardened Pharoah's heart...must have had a higher purpose than I understand. I can't see your attitude and read your non-verbals...but thank-you for taking time to explain
Blessings, Rhoni
LOL, thanks! Yeah, guess I was a bit touchy, there.
Regarding understanding why, or God's higher purpose, why not just read what it says? It says what God did and why.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
LOL, thanks! Yeah, guess I was a bit touchy, there.
Regarding understanding why, or God's higher purpose, why not just read what it says? It says what God did and why.
Incidentally, before I showed you the scriptures I was paraphrasing, it was offensive to you that I would say such a horrible thing about God: that He killed children to prove that He was powerful and to make a name for Himself. Now that you see that the Bible itself says that very thing, is the Bible offensive to you?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Re: Truthfully...Do you believe in luck?
I always wondered why God hardened Pharoah's heart...must have had a higher purpose than I understand. I can't see your attitude and read your non-verbals...but thank-you for taking time to explain
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