Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minister

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have brought Jennings up on the net what would be the difference between him and Bishop Johnson?

Not much in his [Gino's] earlier days. But as time went on he started questioning the canon of Scripture and he and his assembly now accept the Apocrypha and the Book of Jasher as Scripture. Gino was born right after Bishop Johnson died, someone from one of Gino's assemblies told me they believed it was a sign of GOD passing the mantle on. What do you think, Eld. Epley, of Gino from what you've heard from his site or from others, or what you've read, ect?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[StMark]

Any of you Philly folk or anyone in the know about the
community there know anything about Bishop Andrew Ford
and the "Ford Memorial Temple church" ?
How 'bout "Bridgegroom Pentecostal church" ?

what's going on there these days?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Not much in his [Gino's] earlier days. But as time went on he started questioning the canon of Scripture and he and his assembly now accept the Apocrypha and the Book of Jasher as Scripture. Gino was born right after Bishop Johnson died, someone from one of Gino's assemblies told me they believed it was a sign of GOD passing the mantle on. What do you think, Eld. Epley, of Gino from what you've heard from his site or from others, or what you've read, ect?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

If he is questioning the canon of scripture he will wind up just like Shelton's bunch. It seems Godwin and Hunter was someof the very few that made it with the same message with a few minor exceptions.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If he is questioning the canon of scripture he will wind up just like Shelton's bunch. It seems Godwin and Hunter was someof the very few that made it with the same message with a few minor exceptions.

Some of the people in Gino's crowds at conventions (viewable thru YouTube) are beginning to resemble the type of people one would see at Shelton/Omega's assembly. I remember back when the people at Gino's assembly were all in solid colors, the headcoverings for the women couldn't even have prints or anything on them, ect... Now those standards have been thrown out.

Would anyone know if Tony Smith (also on YouTube), who pastors in Atlanta and has a similar confrontational style to Gino and Johnson was ever apart of one of Johnson's assemblies? Smith is sabbaterian, but if you've ever heard him speak, he sounds just like Gino and Johnson.

The "separatist" Apostolics, or Apostolics in the inner cities of Philly, NY, the DC area and other places like that are an interesting bunch. I remember when I came in contact with Gino's teaching, I was hit so hard with the realization I was going to hell if I wasn't baptized in JESUS' name... thank GOD for that!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[StMark]

Originally Posted by StMark

Any of you Philly folk or anyone in the know about the
community there know anything about Bishop Andrew Ford
and the "Ford Memorial Temple church" ?
How 'bout "Bridgegroom Pentecostal church" ?

what's going on there these days?

savedteen, do you know anything about the above?

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by StMark

savedteen, do you know anything about the above?

I don't. When I looked them up on google just now, I got directed to trinitarian Pentecostal churches. Care to catch me up to speed on these two groups?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I don't. When I looked them up on google just now, I got directed to trinitarian Pentecostal churches. Care to catch me up to speed on these two groups?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

They are (or were??) oneness Apostolic churches.

Ford Memorial was always known for its great choir.
this church use to be called "highway COC of the apostolic faith.
after the founder died , bishop Ford, the son took over and
I heard he changed a lot of things.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by StMark

They are (or were??) oneness Apostolic churches.

Ford Memorial was always known for its great choir.
this church use to be called "highway COC of the apostolic faith.
after the founder died , bishop Ford, the son took over and
I heard he changed a lot of things.

I think, from what I saw on the website, that the Ford church (named after the bishop, which I was surprised by), is having a COGIC person speak at their convention.
It is weird when PAW and COGIC get together and whatnot, it's like their racial similarity is greater than their doctrinal differences, which ought not be.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I think, from what I saw on the website, that the Ford church (named after the bishop, which I was surprised by), is having a COGIC person speak at their convention.
It is weird when PAW and COGIC get together and whatnot, it's like their racial similarity is greater than their doctrinal differences, which ought not be.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

O yea, it's totally changed. Totally. Everything is kinda blended
together now. Ford Memorial has probably one of the best
church choirs I've ever heard. They can SAAAAAANG!!!!!

Speaking on the topic you mentioned, PAW is having something
called "The Apostolic Manifesto " in Los Angeles this Friday at
Noel Jones. I have Friends in PAW here in CA, and they are going
to have round table discussions with Bishop smith on what they
need to change in the PAW to make it more relevant

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Not much in his [Gino's] earlier days. But as time went on he started questioning the canon of Scripture and he and his assembly now accept the Apocrypha and the Book of Jasher as Scripture. Gino was born right after Bishop Johnson died, someone from one of Gino's assemblies told me they believed it was a sign of GOD passing the mantle on.

Amazing that a man can have the Holy Ghost, be strong on Jesus name baptism (as he is) and be so off-base on something like accepting these extra-biblical books as scripture.
I didnt know much about the book before today, but in looking it up it quickly became clear to me why this book was never included in the Holy Bible. Someone posted this on a messge board:

Contradictions To The Bible In Jasher
There are also many contradictions to the Bible in the book of Jasher. Here are just a few…

Jasher 13:5 says that Abram went to the land of Canaan at the age of 50 then back to Haran and back to Canaan at age 75, Genesis 12:4 states that Abram was 75 when he departed Haran.

Jasher 18:9 states that one of the angels tells Abraham that Sarah will have a son, but Gen. 17:16 says that God told Abraham.

Jasher 22:44-45 says the Lord got the idea of presenting Isaac as an offering from Isaac’s boast to Ishmael. We know, of course, that God is sovereign and as it says in Gen. 22:1-2 & 12 that the Lord was testing Abraham.

Genesis 28:5 states that Isaac sent Jacob to Padan-aram unto Laban but Jasher 29:11 says that he fled to the house of Eber and hid there for 14 years.

Jasher 47:9 says Isaac dies, according to the chronology of Jasher, Joseph was in Egypt but in Gen. 35:29 Isaac died before Joseph had his dreams.

Simeon could not be bound in Jasher 51:37 but in Genesis. 42:24 Simeon is bound before their eyes.

More Contradictions
Jasher 51:26-32 -- The brothers tell Joseph (whom they don’t recognize) that they are looking for their brother (him). Genesis 42:6-14.

Jahser 78:12-13 -- Pharaoh proclaims no more straw but same amount of bricks (before Moses goes to Pharaoh.) Exodus 5:1,7-8 says it happened after Moses confronts Pharaoh.

Jasher 80:1 "and at the end of two years the Lord sent Moses to Pharaoh" while Exodus 7:14-15 says, "The Lord said unto Moses get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning.

Jasher 80:2-51 lists these Plagues;

1. Waters into blood (v. 3) / Exodus 7:20

2. Frogs (v. 6) / Exodus 8:6

3. Lice (v. 10) / Exodus 8:17

4. The Lord sent all kinds of beasts into Egypt and destroyed all Egypt ( v.13) / Not in Exodus

5. Fiery serpents, scorpions, mice, weazles, toads (v. 14) / Not in Exodus

6. Flies, hornets, fleas, bugs, gnats (v. 15) / Exodus 8:24

7. All reptiles and winged animals came and grieved the Egyptians (v.16) / Not in Exodus

8. God ordered the Sulanuth from the sea, she had long arms, 10 cubits in length and she went upon the roofs and uncovered the raftering and flooring and stretched forth her arm and removed locks and bolts and opened the houses of Egypt. (v. 19-21) / Not in Exodus

9. Pestilence (v.24) / Exodus 9:3

10. Burning inflammation (v. 27) / Not in Exodus

11. Boils (v. 28) / Exodus 9:10

12. Hail and fire (v. 30-31) / Exodus 9:23

13. Locusts (v. 33) / Exodus 10:13

14. Darkness (v.36) / Exodus 10:22

15. First born killed (v. 43) / Exodus 12:29

Wholly Unbiblical Portions of Jasher
There are also many areas that are completely unbiblical.

In Jasher 42:30-41, Rachel talks to Joseph from the grave. This is of course necromancy and is an abomination unto the Lord (Deuteronomy 18:11-12).

According to 53:18-22 Benjamin used a "map (or chart) of stars" to find Joseph. Deuteronomy 18:10 forbids this. It is an abomination to be "an observer of times" (astrologer).

Judah threatens Joseph 54:1-68 with annulations but Genesis 44:14-34 is a plea for Benjamin’s release.

Chapter 71 of Jasher states that Moses was 18 years old when he left Egypt. (Could this be Rabbinical tradition?) He didn’t go to Midian but to Cush and becomes king (72:34-36) and is king over Cush for forty years (73:2), then he goes to Midian where Reuel puts him in prison for 10 years because Reuel thinks Moses is wanted by the Cushites. In the book of Acts (7:23-30) Stephen, inspired by the Holy Spirit, stated the Moses was in Egypt for 40 Years before going to Midian for another 40 years.

Jasher 81:3-4 claims that the Israelites sojourned in Egypt for 210 years whereas the Scripture says in Exodus 12:40-41 it was 430 years.

Jasher 81:40-41says that all but Pharaoh perished in the Red Sea. Pharaoh thanks the Lord and the Lord sends an angel who casts him upon the land of Ninevah where Pharaoh reigned for a long time. Scripture (Exodus 14:23 & 28) states that all perished.

Jasher 32:1-40 -- Esau comes to harm Jacob but angels of the Lord scare Esau, v.55 Esau fears Jacob. Genesis 33:3 Jacob bows seven times to Esau.

Jasher 43:35 -- Isaac went from Hebron to comfort Jacob, his son, because Joseph is dead (sold). Gen. 35:27-29 Isaac died before Joseph even dreamed his dreams.

Jasher 81:38 -- "And the Waters of the sea were divided into twelve parts…." Exodus 14:22 "And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand and on their left."

From The Author’s Imagination?
There are the areas that seem to come from the imagination of the writer, such as Jasher 7:24-30; This passage says the skins that God made for Adam and his wife went to Enoch after their death, then to Methuselah, then to Noah, then Ham stole them and gave them to Cush. They were then passed to Nimrod who became strong when he put on the "magic" garments. Jasher 27:1-11 says that Esau kills Nimrod and takes Adams skins.

Jasher 36:30-35 -- 120 terrible animals from the wilderness came to the asses of Anan. Their shape was from the middle downward of the children of man, and from their middle upward some the likeness of bears, some keephas with tails behind them from between their shoulders reaching down to earth.

Jasher 61:15 -- Zepho kills beast, half man and half animal, "from the middle upward it resembled a man, and from the middle downward it resembled an animal."

Jasher 67:8-52 -- Balaam, Job, and Reuel in Egypt at the same time. Reuel takes Joseph’s stick and returns to Midian.

Jasher 70:1-33 -- At age 3 Moses puts Pharaoh's crown on his head.

Jasher 73 -- King Moses of Cush raises storks to devour serpents that guard city.

Jasher 77:26-51-- Moses beholds the sapphire stick (67:41) in the garden of Reuel with the name of Lord God on stick. (Adam took stick from Eden then it came to Noah, then to Shem, then to Abraham to Isaac, Jacob took it then in Egypt and he gave it to Joseph. After Joseph died Reuel took it and planted it.)

It is obvious that "The Book Of Jasher" is certainly not inspired by the Lord. I heartily disagree with the those in the introduction of the volume that claim "they find nothing in Jasher that contradicts the Bible. Therefore, I can only conclude that while Jasher is an interesting book to read, the reader must be very discerning as to the truth of all or any of the writings in Jasher.

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