One of the Biggest Mistakes

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ILG

...I don't think it has ever been God's will for people to spend so much time at church and doing church things. We need to focus on our families, our kids, our marriages, our work etc. This is the work of God. That should not be forgotten.

I absolutely agree. When a man is providing for his family, he is doing God's work. When a woman is tending her children, home and husband, she is doing God's work.

I have yet to find many occasions when attending a worship service interferes with family time. It's the extra obligations, the volunteering for committees, teaching classes, music programs, and ministries that need to be carefully balanced.

Our basic commitment to church IS to attend all the worship services as saints. (listeners and worshipers) Anything beyond that is extra and voluntary. The kids are also required to put those two services first, including in their basketball or riding schedules. NO games on Wednesday night. Period. But if Hannah has a game on Thursday night (when there's choir) she's welcome to play the b-ball game instead.

UNLESS she has previously decided to join the music department and make a commitment to be there. In which case, we would have a talk with her and discuss what it means to be committed, even on a voluntary basis, and she would need to make it top priority. If it interfered with basketball, she'd have to choose between the two. For that matter, we require the same commitment to basketball practices.

Anyway. I think I got off track. Family is important. So is church--including the business side of things. The two can and should work together. They don't need to be mutually exclusive.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks, Steve. Felling this way is what made me begin to study the Amish/Mennonites as there is much more emphasis on family.

I am very amazed at the way this thread has gone. My basic intent is to help people learn from my mistakes and yes, to heal from my own. Seems valid to me to suggest that families are a good thing and too much church can be bad.

All true sis, but...

The "pain" that you were exposed to ultimately led you to leave the conservative Pentecostal church (at least in part). If you would be saying this prior to your departure, this thread could/would be better received. I understand why many may not receive you - be that to their detriment or not.

We all have an obligation to follow the truth and do what is right in spite of the church pastors/teachers.It's disturbing to me that grown adults can knowingly sit under abusive conditions or dictatorships and not speak up or act up with righteous indignation. But this is not uniquely a Pentecostal/UPC problem.

I think it is fair to say this...
Those who have had radical conversions - and churches that are comprised of such, have a greater need for intense immersion into the church and it's diverse ministries. They also will have a greater need of intimate Pastoral leadership on a frequent basis. This would explain why many growing evangelical churches have and need constant activities and programs. I think the key is to not require 100% attendance and allow the membership some flexibility according to their (and their family's) needs.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I understand the point of the thread, but I believe church time IS or, at least, should be, Family Time. We go to church as a family to work together, pray together, play together, sing together, worship together and learn together.

That said, I'm a PK, and I know what it means for parents to put the church business before their families. I remember my mother telling my Dad one time that she needed to make an appointment with him. LOL!!! It was her way of saying he needed to slow down and make time for her (and me).

Balance is important, but I don't agree that church is something that is done instead of family time. It can be both. For that matter, when we get the kids outside and rake the yard--that's "family time." Family time doesn't only mean recreational time.

I agree that church should be family time, but in my experience the family is once again seperated according to age or if they are married or not.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks cneattx. I don't talk too much about the extent of things in my life. This that I wrote today I felt was a pretty safe topic. It just seems like a no brainer to me now....there are many, many UPC churches that emphasize church ahead of family. I know from being in it for 19 years. As for feeling happier in the church I am in....I don't know what I feel. If you want to know what's really inside of me, what I rarely say.....I have been so traumatized by my experiences in the church that I am not involved in church at all except for attending on Sunday mornings. I had a nightmare the other night....that my husband said he wanted to get back into the UPC and pastor. It was truly a nightmare. This is not a joke. I woke up and told my husband about it and he said "That was a nightmare!!" I was full of fear in the dream.

So, this issue just seemed like a safe, little no-brainer discussion issue. If I can't discuss this tiny thing safely without being criticized by UPC people, you can imagine that I will probably never talk about the things that are really bothering me.

The UPC church that I grew up in taught that the church came first, children second and husband third. I was also taught to never say no to the pastor. I am also very careful of what I say due to the criticism that abounds.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Kae

The UPC church that I grew up in taught that the church came first, children second and husband third. I was also taught to never say no to the pastor. I am also very careful of what I say due to the criticism that abounds.

That is bizarre Kae. Did you actually buy into that?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Kae

I agree that church should be family time, but in my experience the family is once again seperated according to age or if they are married or not.

I don't consider it to be "anti-family" to send my children to a class once a week where they learn about God in an age-appropriate way, have fun with other kids their age, and make silly crafts. Children participating in activities and classes independent of their parents (but an approved format and content, of course) doesn't threaten the family bond, IMO.

However, when I said "family time", I was mostly thinking of the main services where everyone is together, or extra-curricular activities that do include the whole family.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Kae

The UPC church that I grew up in taught that the church came first, children second and husband third. I was also taught to never say no to the pastor. I am also very careful of what I say due to the criticism that abounds.

The UPC church I grew up in taught that God came first (personal relationship), family came second, and church obligations third. (followed by friends and community.) I pretty much agree with that priority list.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

The UPC church I grew up in taught that God came first (personal relationship), family came second, and church obligations third. (followed by friends and community.) I pretty much agree with that priority list.

Yup.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

That is bizarre Kae. Did you actually buy into that?

I grew up with this thinking so it was just normal. When I went to bible college, I learned that the church started with the family. I just remember after bible college thinking that the church I grew up in was very misguided. After I got married my husband is first, then children, then the church.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

The UPC church I grew up in taught that God came first (personal relationship), family came second, and church obligations third. (followed by friends and community.) I pretty much agree with that priority list.

This is what I believe now, although I am a firm believer that spouse comes before children. In divorce situations that is difficult to do when one is remarried and has children from a previous marriage. In that case I would put the children first.