Why Does God Give the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? - Page 6

Jack Shephard · #51 01-07-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know. The Bible says its a promise, a gift. I'm surprised when people don't receive the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples don't seem to leave anyone out or anyone at the altar frustrated because they haven't received the Holy Ghost--it leads me to believe that:

1. People are seeking signs instead of God (tongues), which has corrupted the authenticity of the process, and,2. We are lacking the power of the first church.
Although, I know that there are a couple of places where people "tarried" until the Holy Ghost fell upon them. We can wonder and suppose and conjecture, would God have allowed them to be lost if they had all died before the Holy Ghost fell? And does that mean the Holy Ghost isn't essential? I believe God is more faithful than that.

I don't have all the answers. My husband didn't receive the Holy Ghost until well after he had been baptized, at home, by himself. Would I go so far as to say he would have been lost between baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost? I don't know. I think God is a just God, and judges people appropriately, even outside His own lines. He'll have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, but in the meantime, we should be following His commandments and the examples of the apostles to the best of our ability.

I don't believe we should look in the Bible and find loopholes for those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized, but rather, try to find out how we are to reach OUT to those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized.

I don't agree totally with both these things. First tongues are a sign to the unbeliever the Bible says so looking for a sign is not a bad thing, perhaps they are looking for a different sign. Second is the power comes from the same source. They had the same HG we do, but I believe that perhaps they were more sensitive to it. When God fills us with the HG that is all the power we will get, IMO. However the closer we continue to get to Him does the power work more. Kinda like the possitive side and a negative side of a battery. The negative side has all the power it will get but when combined with the possitive side the power increasesm but not cause the negative side gained power, but because it combined with something of similar or greater power.

Jack Shephard · #52 01-07-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Why does God promise the Holy Ghost to his followers? Would you one steppers please tell me what you believe the purpose of the Holy Ghost baptism is?

I believe that it is the keeper that we need to make it through the rest of our lives. After the salvation the process of living a life for Him begins and we need the HG to keep us on track and to reach deeper in Him. Also it is a sign to the unbeliever that God is real, powerful, and in the occasion of tongues with interpretaion it is a sign the He still does speak to us today

EA · #53 01-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know. The Bible says its a promise, a gift. I'm surprised when people don't receive the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples don't seem to leave anyone out or anyone at the altar frustrated because they haven't received the Holy Ghost--it leads me to believe that:

1. People are seeking signs instead of God (tongues), which has corrupted the authenticity of the process, and,
2. We are lacking the power of the first church.

Although, I know that there are a couple of places where people "tarried" until the Holy Ghost fell upon them. We can wonder and suppose and conjecture, would God have allowed them to be lost if they had all died before the Holy Ghost fell? And does that mean the Holy Ghost isn't essential? I believe God is more faithful than that.

I don't have all the answers. My husband didn't receive the Holy Ghost until well after he had been baptized, at home, by himself. Would I go so far as to say he would have been lost between baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost? I don't know. I think God is a just God, and judges people appropriately, even outside His own lines. He'll have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, but in the meantime, we should be following His commandments and the examples of the apostles to the best of our ability.

I don't believe we should look in the Bible and find loopholes for those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized, but rather, try to find out how we are to reach OUT to those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized.

I agree. I am surprised at the efforts within Pentecostal churches to minimize the importance of Holy Ghost baptism. That experience is our identifier.

The biblical model Peter preached is as follows.

Early Part of Acts 2 = Strong Gospel preaching that led to conviction and an inner questioning as to how to respond to what Jesus did for them.

2:37 "What shall we do?"

Good preaching always answers this question, The Gospel message is meaningless unless it is responded to PROPERLY. Peter was very specific in his preaching to them.

2:38 Two commands: "Repent and be baptized." These commands were given after their questioning faith found a voice. Peter went so far as to give their responses salvational implications when he said "for the remission of sins."

2:38b "And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Promise, promise, promise. It is a guarantee. It will happen. Why would anyone doubt it? Minimize it? Circumvent it? Quench it?

2:39 "The promise is unto you"

Two commands and a promise. God does not lie.

MissBrattified · #54 01-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I don't agree totally with both these things. First tongues are a sign to the unbeliever the Bible says so looking for a sign is not a bad thing, perhaps they are looking for a different sign. Second is the power comes from the same source. They had the same HG we do, but I believe that perhaps they were more sensitive to it. When God fills us with the HG that is all the power we will get, IMO. However the closer we continue to get to Him does the power work more. Kinda like the possitive side and a negative side of a battery. The negative side has all the power it will get but when combined with the possitive side the power increasesm but not cause the negative side gained power, but because it combined with something of similar or greater power.

Those are just my thoughts, I don't know why so many people seem to struggle receiving the Holy Ghost.

I agree with your comment that perhaps they were more sensitive to the power of the Holy Ghost--I've heard more than one missionary say that it is easier for people to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost in other countries, so maybe it's just our skepticism, cynicism or familiarity with the process. Regardless, something is different, but I don't think we should try to find loopholes to excuse the differences, but rather something that will help us eliminate the differences (between the NT church/present day church).

Jack Shephard · #55 01-07-2009, 03:27 PM

You are right it is an identifier, but truth is that someone doesn't have to be that spiritual to speak in tongues (pray in the HG). They must know how to get to that point.

You say it is a guarantee ( I agree that it is as long as one seeks it) but what would you say to this, a man that is a personal friend of mine has been in Pentecost for over 40 years. Has not received the HG but goes to the altar every service and seeks with everything he has and nothing. I know how I feel but want your opinion cause I respect you so much

Jack Shephard · #56 01-07-2009, 03:29 PM

There are many differences though...Cars, money, vehicles, etc. Puff Daddy and Biggy Smalls said it best, "Mo' money mo' problems"

Sam · #57 01-07-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yet you alluded to a pattern of conversion in Acts ... this pattern being ... repentance, water baptism, tongues .... only is cited in 3 instances of conversions ... not all ... Paul's, jailer's, eunuch's, 3000, etc.

This does not a pattern make, IMO.

Dan, at one time you had a chart of the responses to the Gospel as recorded in the Book of Acts. I think there were 21 records of how people responded. If you can find that, why don't you post it here?

EA · #58 01-07-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

You are right it is an identifier, but truth is that someone doesn't have to be that spiritual to speak in tongues (pray in the HG). They must know how to get to that point.

You say it is a guarantee ( I agree that it is as long as one seeks it) but what would you say to this, a man that is a personal friend of mine has been in Pentecost for over 40 years. Has not received the HG but goes to the altar every service and seeks with everything he has and nothing. I know how I feel but want your opinion cause I respect you so much

I guess the best question is "did Peter lie?" "And ye shall receive" seems rather clear to me.

Consider this passage from Paul in I Thessalonians 5:19

"Quench not the Spirit."

That word quench is used in the same way we would think of putting out a fire.

Why do some people not receive? They quench the Spirit.

Why do some people not exhibit the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22-23 mentions? They quench the Spirit.

Their flesh refuses to submit to the Spirit's work.

Jack Shephard · #59 01-07-2009, 03:36 PM

No he didn't lie, but I think that he just made a blanket statement and that some people have to tarry for it and some don't. No matter the reasons why someone doesn't get it the Promise is promised to them too.

Sam · #60 01-07-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I think most W&S doctrine people can say it is a command, but IS it actually a command? I don't think so-I know you didn't ask me per se. In Acts Peter said Repent and be baptized and then you will receive the HG. The command was in the repentance and baptism, the HGB was a by product of them obeying that part of the sermon. That part of the sermon was a by product of their salvation (receiving Christ) and that was a by product of the Message--death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Acts 2:38 contains two commands and one promise:

Command number 1: repent

Command number 2: be baptized in water

Promise number 1: you shall receive the promised gift of the Holy Spirit

Often in the record of the Book of Acts, we find that water baptism is mentioned in connection with conversion and some times the Holy Ghost baptism is mentioned.