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Old 08-14-2008, 05:57 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

Reference the attached chart.
We know there are differences between different churches and even differences among Oneness Pentecostals on the Holy Ghost Baptism. Where do you fit on the chart?

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ent=HSbapt.jpg
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:10 PM
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nahkoe nahkoe is offline
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Re: HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

Where's the magnifying glass?

Ok, the link is much better. lol I'll look at it and get back to you.
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God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:15 PM
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Baron1710 Baron1710 is offline
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Re: HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Reference the attached chart.
We know there are differences between different churches and even differences among Oneness Pentecostals on the Holy Ghost Baptism. Where do you fit on the chart?

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ent=HSbapt.jpg
This chart seems a little skewed to me for instance the sentence under traditional Pentecostal that says, "Christians are viewed as carnal and without power to serve."

Oh and I am assuming that whoever put it together intends for Pauline Christianity to be the correct answer?
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:28 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
This chart seems a little skewed to me for instance the sentence under traditional Pentecostal that says, "Christians are viewed as carnal and without power to serve."

Oh and I am assuming that whoever put it together intends for Pauline Christianity to be the correct answer?
I don't know who put the chart together. I would assume it was a good Southern Baptist. When I was a Baptist, I was taught that when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior that was it. That was the Holy Ghost Baptism. Don't expect anything else.

Whoever put the chart together considered himself to be following Pauline Christianity and any deviation was just a "theory."
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:33 PM
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Re: HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
This chart seems a little skewed to me for instance the sentence under traditional Pentecostal that says, "Christians are viewed as carnal and without power to serve."

Oh and I am assuming that whoever put it together intends for Pauline Christianity to be the correct answer?
Are you saying that the apostle Paul was wrong about the Holy Spirit?

(How we doing, Baron? You hanging in there?)
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:39 PM
theoldpaths theoldpaths is offline
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Re: HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism)

I tend to agree with Raymond Woodward (Because We Are His, Biblical Studies in Practical Holiness), that salvation/sanctification is a process. We are initially saved, we stay saved, and eventually we shall be saved.

Peter said - Acts 15:11 - But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter was already born again - born of the water and Spirit - but he said that he believed he would be saved in the end

Getting saved, staying saved, saved in the end - 1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

When one is initially born again, they are just as right with God as someone who has been living in loving obedience to God, his word, and those that have the rule over them for over 20 years.

However, after one is born again, they are to grow in grace and in knowledge. Part of maturing is growing and gaining knowledge and applying that knowledge to one's life. As one learns more of what is expected of them, it becomes their responsibility to obey.

Just like a prostitute may come to an apostolic church and may get born again in that service, although she is ready to meet the Lord initially, as she grows in knowledge of what is required of her, she should at some point no longer, look, act, talk like a prostitute. Ditto for a long-haired heavy-metal lead singer.

Salvation/sanctification is a process.

Paul came across some people that he said should have had certain abilities, but were lacking...

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskillfull in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Something had affected their growth.

We are to desire the sincere milk of the word that we may GROW thereby and the promise of God to those who grow by the milk of the word is this...

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Those who grow by the sincere milk of the word will eventually be weaned off of the milk and are ready for meat. Those who have grown from the milk of the word, God will teach them knowledge and cause them to understand doctrine.

In the list of the requirements for elders, Paul explained...

Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Its interesting that in listing the requirements for elders, he said "for a bishop"; the requirements of an elder somehow are tied to or related to the requirements of a bishop.

In any event, a bishop should be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. They have reached a level of growth and maturity that God has taught them knowledge and caused them to understand doctrine so that they are able by sound doctrine both to exhort and convince the gainsayers.

Getting saved, staying saved, and being saved in the end.

Getting saved doesn't guarantee being saved in the end; we also have to stay saved.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

They believed and obeyed and got saved out of Egypt, but they needed to continue to believe and obey. Just because He initially saved them, that didn't guarantee that they would stay saved until the end.

Similarity, in the NT we read about those who were in the faith but departed from the faith and after their own LUSTS got their own teachers who would tickle their ears and tell them smooth things.

After leaving the foundational first principles of the doctrine of Christ, we need to go on to perfection and God has given us the 5 fold ministry for the perfecting of the saints and for the work of the ministry. We need the ministry to help in our perfecting.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Heb 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Funny how in Hebrews 13, 3 times speaks about those that have the rule over you. Makes one think that Paul was trying to emphasize something.

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
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