Unique Baptismal Service

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Margies3

In every Apostolic church I ever attended, those being baptized were always placed under the water as the minister, "I now baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." Always The Lord Jesus Christ. Never The name of the Lord Jesus or in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Maybe some of you have seen it done differently, but that's my experience.

But at one point in my life, I searched long and hard to find anywhere in the Scripture where anyone was ever baptized in the full name - the Lord Jesus Christ. It wasn't there.

In Acts 8:16 they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Acts 10;48 they were baptized in the name of the Lord.

In Acts 19:5 they're again being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

and finally in Acts 22:16, they were baptized calling upon the name of the Lord.

So again, I am NOT saying that being baptized in Jesus' name is wrong! Far from it! What I am saying is that to use the argument, "The only slight problem I see with it is that NO ONE WAS EVER BAPTIZED LIKE THAT IN THE BIBLE" is that no one was ever baptized in the exact formula that we use in Apostolic churches today either. That's the reason I have a hard time finding fault with a formula like the one used where Rhoni went last Sunday. But that's just me. And I'm not God. (a fact for which I am eternally grateful )

Originally Posted by Margies3

Please don't think I am finding fault. But that particular formula is never used exactly like that in the New Testament. Which proves my point. Thanks

Originally Posted by Sam

actually we don't have any actual quote of the words spoken by someone when they baptized.

We have a quote by Peter when he healed someone in Jesus' name in Acts 3:6 where he said, "...in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk"

We have a quote by Paul when he evicted a spirit from someone in Jesus' name in Acts 16:18 when he said, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her"

but, we have no such quotation by anyone doing baptism in Jesus' name.

We assume they spoke the name of Jesus in baptizing like they did in healing or exorcisms but we don't have a direct quote.

Originally Posted by Sam

I have read on one of these forums that a UPC church in NE Ohio had a sign in the room where folks got ready to baptize and to be baptized. The sign instructed the person doing the baptizing to say, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

I have not been there and did not see it for myself so I do not know if that is accurate or not. I'm passing it on as "hearsay."

I also was told by a UPC minister from Louisiana many years ago that a large UPC church in a certain city used this as a baptismal forumula, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The minister who told me that was not from that particular city. I don't know if he had ever been there during a baptismal service and personally heard those words spoken. So this is also "hearsay." That pastor later left the UPC.

I think that the act of baptism is the point and doing everything we do in the name and by the authroity given to that name...Jesus. It is extreme legalism to think that the exact wording is what is important as everywhere they were baptized in the New Testament a different formula was used.

BTW - How was Jesus baptized? He was our example...what words did John the Baptist use? Maybe the wording was omitted for a reason? Just a thought.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. Great contributions everyone. I love it when we can discuss these things and not be harsh or aggressive, but reason together in love!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

...
BTW - How was Jesus baptized? He was our example...what words did John the Baptist use? Maybe the wording was omitted for a reason? Just a thought.
...

It is my understanding that baptism at that time was a three-fold self immersion. One person did not put the other person under the water.

When Jesus was baptized it was considered being baptized in the name of John because John was the leader of the group. Others who later became disciples of Jesus were baptized in the name of John or under the ministry of John. We do not read that Jesus and those others who were baptized in the name of John or under the authority of John were ever rebaptized after Jesus started gathering disciples.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Sam

When Jesus was baptized it was considered being baptized in the name of John because John was the leader of the group. Others who later became disciples of Jesus were baptized in the name of John or under the ministry of John. We do not read that Jesus and those others who were baptized in the name of John or under the authority of John were ever rebaptized after Jesus started gathering disciples.

That is an interesting point, and one I'd never thought about! Were the disciples and followers of Jesus re-baptized in His name?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

That is an interesting point, and one I'd never thought about! Were the disciples and followers of Jesus re-baptized in His name?

There is no record that they were or were not.

In Acts 19 there were a group of people who were still following the baptism of John. This was in Ephesus and was in October AD 53, some twenty years after the cross. Paul rebaptized them in Jesus' name. In the 18th chapter we are told about a preacher in that area named Apollos who knew only the baptism of John. Priscilla and Aquila (a husband and wife pastor/teacher team) took him aside and explained the way of God more completely. Was he rebaptized? Did they lay hands on him and minister the Holy Ghost baptism? The Scriptures are silent on that. He may have been the one who had taught that group of disciples that Paul rebaptized.

[BadgerBoysMom]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

That is an interesting point, and one I'd never thought about! Were the disciples and followers of Jesus re-baptized in His name?

I have asked and asked this question and have yet to find any solid answer. I cannot find it in scripture ANYWHERE. Maybe I am missing it but I don't think so.

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can drive BY a store without going IN.

There's a significant difference between "by" and "in".

[Sam]

Originally Posted by BadgerBoysMom

I have asked and asked this question and have yet to find any solid answer. I cannot find it in scripture ANYWHERE. Maybe I am missing it but I don't think so.

The way I understand it.
-Quite a few people were baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John.
-John was the forerunner, the Elijah, who came to prepare the way of YHWH/Yeshua. He emphasized that he could only baptize in/with water but the One coming after him, the One who was before him, would baptize in/with the Holy Spirit. (John 1:29-34)
-Jesus was baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John
-YHWH revealed to John that Yeshua was the coming One, the King, the One who would baptize in/with water, the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world.
-Two disciples (Andrew and John, brother of James) were pointed to Jesus and they began to follow Him. (John 1:35-40)
_They brought others to Jesus like Peter (John 40-42)
-Jesus called others to follow Him, like Philip (John 1:43-44)
-Others brought others (John 1:45-51)

The Scriptures do not say whether those who left John to follow Jesus were baptized by Jesus, or under Jesus' ministry, or in the name of Jesus.

We do find that Jesus and/or His disciples did baptize people (John 3:22-36). Actually, it's not known how much of those verses are the words of John the Baptist and how much is commentary by John the Apostle who wrote that Gospel. It seems as though both Jesus and John continued to baptize until John was put in prison. (John 4:1-2)

There are some things we just don't know. Some teach that Jesus rebaptized all who came to Him who were previously baptized by John. Some teach that the 12 Apostles, Mary the mother of Jesus and the rest of the 120 who were in the upper room (Acts 1:15) were not rebaptized by Jesus but were baptized (by whom?) on the Day of Pentecost. I don't think we can say either of those two premises are true.

What do I believe? Well, that doesn't make a whole lot of difference. I personally believe that those who had been baptized by John were not rebaptized when they left John and followed Jesus. Those who had not been disciples of John, and therefore had not been baptized in his name, were baptized when they came to Jesus. This leaves some folks who were pioneers and foundational in the church not actually being baptized by Jesus, under His ministry, or in His name. That horrifies some folks. It doesn't bother me.

Water baptism in the couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus was common among Jews. It was called mikveh. Converts to Judaism self-immersed as part of the conversion process. Jews self-immersed at different times of their life. Some good Jews self-immersed each Friday afternoon in preparation for the sabbath. So, if the disciples of John and Jesus were baptized (or self-immersed) several times it would not surprise me and would fit in with the customs of the time. Therefore, they might have been baptized by John and subsequently baptized by Jesus.

There's just some things we don't know.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

I can drive BY a store without going IN.

There's a significant difference between "by" and "in".

But...they did go in and were baptized in the name and by authority of Jesus...therein is the point.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Sam

The way I understand it.
-Quite a few people were baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John.
-John was the forerunner, the Elijah, who came to prepare the way of YHWH/Yeshua. He emphasized that he could only baptize in/with water but the One coming after him, the One who was before him, would baptize in/with the Holy Spirit. (John 1:29-34)
-Jesus was baptized by John, or under John's baptism, or in the name of John
-YHWH revealed to John that Yeshua was the coming One, the King, the One who would baptize in/with water, the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world.
-Two disciples (Andrew and John, brother of James) were pointed to Jesus and they began to follow Him. (John 1:35-40)
_They brought others to Jesus like Peter (John 40-42)
-Jesus called others to follow Him, like Philip (John 1:43-44)
-Others brought others (John 1:45-51)

The Scriptures do not say whether those who left John to follow Jesus were baptized by Jesus, or under Jesus' ministry, or in the name of Jesus.

We do find that Jesus and/or His disciples did baptize people (John 3:22-36). Actually, it's not known how much of those verses are the words of John the Baptist and how much is commentary by John the Apostle who wrote that Gospel. It seems as though both Jesus and John continued to baptize until John was put in prison. (John 4:1-2)

There are some things we just don't know. Some teach that Jesus rebaptized all who came to Him who were previously baptized by John. Some teach that the 12 Apostles, Mary the mother of Jesus and the rest of the 120 who were in the upper room (Acts 1:15) were not rebaptized by Jesus but were baptized (by whom?) on the Day of Pentecost. I don't think we can say either of those two premises are true.

What do I believe? Well, that doesn't make a whole lot of difference. I personally believe that those who had been baptized by John were not rebaptized when they left John and followed Jesus. Those who had not been disciples of John, and therefore had not been baptized in his name, were baptized when they came to Jesus. This leaves some folks who were pioneers and foundational in the church not actually being baptized by Jesus, under His ministry, or in His name. That horrifies some folks. It doesn't bother me.

Water baptism in the couple of centuries before the birth of Jesus was common among Jews. It was called mikveh. Converts to Judaism self-immersed as part of the conversion process. Jews self-immersed at different times of their life. Some good Jews self-immersed each Friday afternoon in preparation for the sabbath. So, if the disciples of John and Jesus were baptized (or self-immersed) several times it would not surprise me and would fit in with the customs of the time. Therefore, they might have been baptized by John and subsequently baptized by Jesus.

There's just some things we don't know.

As Corinthians would tell us..."we all see through a glass darkly...". Some think their eye-sight is 20/20 but like Keirkegard in the short story, The Cave, reality to those folks in chains in a cave were only shadows of the truth. They wanted to return to the cave because the darkness of the cave was more comfortable than the brilliance of the light.

Blessings, Rhoni

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I now baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by the name and authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Rhoni

But...they did go in and were baptized in the name and by authority of Jesus...therein is the point.

Blessings, Rhoni

They were baptized in the name of the father, son, and
Holy Ghost (the name is absent), then they concluded the baptism by stating "by the name and authority of Jesus."

They were baptized into an absent name, by the authority of Jesus.

Example: I pronounce you, Rhoni, married, to your long life friend, by the authority of the State of California.

In the above example, I never mentioned your husband's name to officiate the wedding. Thus, your freinds were baptized by the authority of Jesus, but never in His name!