What If You Had Been Born Hitler???

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, now you've done it. I'm started.

Actually, this won't take long. Simple answer: they can't.

Slightly less simple answer: they can't, just for doing the thing they were hardened to do. Could be other reasons to send them, though!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

How many of you believe that you are a more worthy candidate for salvation than Hitler was?

Bear in mind that, unlike Hitler, none of us here have the power of a modern state at our disposal, so the amount of harm we can do is in that sense limited by the grace of God.

If we get angry with someone in this forum, for example, we might say something nasty, but we are in no position to send the Gestapo after the person who offends us. Nor are we in a position, such as Hitler was, where our own weaknesses and prejudices can easily be transformed into political terror. The same weaknesses and prejudices may in fact be there, but we do not have available to us the same means of expressing them that Hitler had available to him.

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," said Lord Acton. But few of us have experienced even the temptations of political power, much less the temptations of "absolute" tyrannical power.

So how many here are utterly confident that in Hitler's precise circumstances you would have come off any better than he did?

Just wondering.

By: T. Talbott

If I had been born Hitler, I don't believe there would have been a Holocaust. People make choices.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Care to enlighten us? What's the context? I've read the whole chapter, in fact the whole book. Not helping.

Romans 13 (New International Version)

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Well, Timmy, I don't believe verse 3 and 4 apply to Hitler, what do you think?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Ron

Who was "Hilter?"

Canadian's wouldn't know would they? Or did Canada join in the fray?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

yes it is, Pharoah was hardened for Gods purpose. So did he have a choice?

He had freewill within the boundaries of who he was, but who he was prevented him from making other choices.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So could Pharoah be lost for something he had no control over?

He will recieve "just recompense" for the deeds he commited while in his flesh, but he will also be purged, corrected and reconciled to God.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by ILG

If I had been born Hitler, I don't believe there would have been a Holocaust. People make choices.

If you had been shaped by the same heritage, culture and temperment you would have just as likely done as he did.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Romans 13 (New International Version)

Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Well, Timmy, I don't believe verse 3 and 4 apply to Hitler, what do you think?

So, you see the gaping flaws in Paul's argument, too? Cool!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by crakjak

If you had been shaped by the same heritage, culture and temperment you would have just as likely done as he did.

I do believe that these things shape us all. BUt you are basically saying he had no choice.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by crakjak

If you had been shaped by the same heritage, culture and temperment you would have just as likely done as he did.

I don't know. Millions were shaped by the same heritage, culture, and temperament without becoming "Hitler".