The same one you were. That it's sometimes hard to reconcile a merciful, loving God with an angry, judgmental God. It seems, though, from scripture, and historical accounts, that He is a God of both mercy and judgment.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
The same one you were. That it's sometimes hard to reconcile a merciful, loving God with an angry, judgmental God. It seems, though, from scripture, and historical accounts, that He is a God of both mercy and judgment.
Oh. The illogical stuff in the Bible, yeah. So, you somehow find it comforting to go back to the source of the bad logic, and just believe it anyway?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Oh. The illogical stuff in the Bible, yeah. So, you somehow find it comforting to go back to the source of the bad logic, and just believe it anyway?
So do you believe if something is illogical that it somehow can't be of God? It doesn't bother me that He often defies my comprehension.
I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, so of course it is my source of understanding for all things concerning Him. You're right...I find the Word to be a comforting place. And I don't consider something to be bad logic just because I can't wrap my brain around it.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
So do you believe if something is illogical that it somehow can't be of God?
No, but I find it very unlikely to be of God. I find it very unlikely that God will tell us things that don't make sense, or that are ambiguous enough to lead to endless debates and fights over the right interpretation. Or give us utterly ridiculous laws. Or punish people forever, just for not believing a select few people who say they speak or write what God told them to tell us (or for guessing wrong which ones to believe).
Quote:
It doesn't bother me that He often defies my comprehension.
I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, so of course it is my source of understanding for all things concerning Him. You're right...I find the Word to be a comforting place. And I don't consider something to be bad logic just because I can't wrap my brain around it.
You are pretty sure you guessed right, then?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Thank you, very much, I had never notice that misspel until someone (Ron) mentioned this past week.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
So, anyway, if I had been born Hitler, I would be Hitler. Maybe a better question would be "What if your mind was time-transported into Hitler's head on Jan 30, 1933?" After getting my bearings and figuring out who/where/when I was, I'd ... well, I dunno. I'd avoid doing all that horrible stuff the "real" Hitler did.
Meanwhile, back in 2009, on AFF, watch out for that new, strange "Timmy". Yikes!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Anyone who kills thousands of people is going to become notorious because of their deeds.
Hitler was born a human being just like the rest of us, faced with the same choices as many others born in the same era, in the same culture. Many others chose good instead of evil, which leaves Hitler without an excuse.
Hitler could have chosen good, and when he chose evil, he could have chosen later to repent. As far as we know, he did neither.
He wasn't born helplessly evil. He was born with a choice. Therefore, God will hold him responsible for his choices, just as He does us.
Hitler was not unsavable. He could have chosen to repent. Did he? I don't know. It doesn't appear that he did.
It's the same as Peter and Judas--both betrayed Christ, but Peter repented, and Judas was either too proud to repent, or didn't have enough faith in the grace of God to repent. Either way--one repented and was forgiven, and another died without repenting. Basically the same sin, two different results.
Hitler did not have a choice, because of all the circumstances that surrounded his life he could not have been anyone other than who he became, anymore that you are I can be other than who we are. That anyone is saved out of sin and evil is a gift from God and is not because of how good we are, or what great choices we make.
(Ep. 2:6-7) HE made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to comeHE might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
We are not robots, however we are placed in time and space as God purposes. We have free will within the boundaries of who we are, we cannot be other than who and how God made and placed us. We will be apart of God's elect in this world only as God purposes.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
It's not a matter of if WE are more worthy. It's a matter of what God thinks.
Which of course brings me to the same point I have to make over and over with you, what matters is not how emotional an argument you can make, but what the bible says
BTW...why are you so obsessed with this topic? Is it important for our salvation? Will it motivate us to go reach more souls?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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