Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[Adino]

GP, are sins remitted twice?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Welcome back, Steve. Sorry again to hear of your loss.

This is far from a strawman position. You CANNOT say sins WERE historically remitted before the resurrection and we only need to APPROPRIATE that remission through a present 'application of the blood' (as you said before) when it was the historic application of Christ's blood which brought the pre-resurrection remission in the first place. The blood of Christ is not applied multiple times to the same sins.

It is not a matter of 'applying' the finished work of the Cross to man. It is a matter of man coming to terms with the truthfulness of the testimony of God concerning the remission of his sins on the Cross. Whether you believe it or not, the historic reality of sin remission exists. The sins imputed to Christ are GONE whether you choose to 'appropriate' the remission or not. Your acceptance or rejection of this historical reality has no bearing on whether it happened..... it happened.

Tell us outright. Do you believe sins are remitted in baptism? Yes or No?

What is the blood being applied to in baptism? You've already conceded that our sins were remitted before the resurrection. If they are historically removed, what is the blood being applied to in baptism?

Looking for some consistency in your position, Bro.

Sins were remitted for ALL mankind at Calvary and the penitent PERSONALLY recieves remission of sins when immersed in water in Jesus Name and ONLY that act PERSONALLY invokes the power of the shed blood of Christ. Ain't no dodger and I am consistant.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Paul held back nothing preaching repentance and faith. The repentant heart must return to God via faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Those who externally confess Christ are to be accepted into the Church as being saved. It was upon the rock of a confession of Christ that the Church was to be built. This verbal confession historically took place at the baptismal event.

Baptism, being the eperotema (the answer) of a good conscience toward God, declared the purged conscience of the person being baptized. Only those whose hearts had come to rest in the historic sin remission of the Cross were to be baptized picturing their personal resurrection to new life.

You have better dancing moves than the late Micheal Jackson the Lutheran shuffle I call it.
Answer the question does a man have to repent to be saved? Yes or No?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Steve and Growing,

1) Do you both agree the sins imputed to Christ were historically remitted on the Cross prior to the resurrection?

and....

2) Do you both agree that once remitted those sins needn't be 'remitted again?'

Everyone, once we all agree that no sins are remitted in baptism we can move on to what it means to 'receive' the historic remission of the Cross.

I will contend that the only perception which changes concerning our sin is our own and not God's. The only thing that changes after the event of the Cross is how our heart comes to terms with its effectiveness. It is not that God again remits our sin, it is that our conscience is purified/cleansed/purged when it rests in the finished work of the Cross. Our hearts are purified by faith in the historic remission of the Cross.

Forgiveness (which happened prior to the resurrection) is received (i.e., becomes an accepted personal reality) when man comes to trust that the sin remission of the Cross was effective on his behalf. When we come to a personal acknowledgment of Christ and the work of the Cross our heart and/or conscience of sin is purified by faith and made good toward God (Acts 15:9; 1Timothy 1:5; 1Timothy 3:9; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 10:2,22; 1Peter 3:21). This does not mean that our sin is forgiven/remitted for a second time, it simply means our heart has come to rest in faith that our sin was historically dealt with by God through Christ at Calvary.

As I said before: Baptism is entered into as a response of this good conscience toward God. The man who has come to accept through faith alone the remission of the Cross confesses this faith in Christ and is baptized to signify his passing from spiritual death into spiritual life at the moment he believed (1Peter 3:21; John 3:15-16, 36; John 5:24; John 6:40,47; John 11:25,26).

Adino do you believe in Universalism????????????
If not your position is the same as ours. You believe Jesus' death forgave-pardoned-redeemed-remitted man's sin by ONE offering ONCE for all HOWEVER
you believe someone must do something whether it is simple faith & confess or repentance to PERSONALLY recieve what was purchased at Calvary.
Your dog won't hunt.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Adino do you believe in Universalism????????????
If not your position is the same as ours. You believe Jesus' death forgave-pardoned-redeemed-remitted man's sin by ONE offering ONCE for all HOWEVER
you believe someone must do something whether it is simple faith & confess or repentance to PERSONALLY recieve what was purchased at Calvary.
Your dog won't hunt.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Sins were remitted for ALL mankind at Calvary and the penitent PERSONALLY recieves remission of sins when immersed in water in Jesus Name and ONLY that act PERSONALLY invokes the power of the shed blood of Christ. Ain't no dodger and I am consistant.

This makes no sense.

Q: What remitted the sins at Calvary?
A: The application of Christ's shed blood.

You've already said all sins were remitted at Calvary. What is the power of the blood being invoked to do in baptism?

Is the blood applied twice?

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Adino do you believe in Universalism????????????
If not your position is the same as ours. You believe Jesus' death forgave-pardoned-redeemed-remitted man's sin by ONE offering ONCE for all HOWEVER
you believe someone must do something whether it is simple faith & confess or repentance to PERSONALLY recieve what was purchased at Calvary.
Your dog won't hunt.

I do not believe as do you that man must do something in order to effect the forgiveness of the Cross. Your position deems the Cross ineffective until baptism.

Answer please:

Are sins remitted twice?

Does the blood need to be applied twice?

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Answer the question does a man have to repent to be saved? Yes or No?

YES

Now your turn:

Are sins remitted twice? Yes or No?

Does the blood need to be applied twice? Yes or No?

Repeat after me....

"Sins remitted on the Cross cannot be remitted again in baptism."

And while you're at it....

"The application of the blood of Christ which resulted in the historic sin remission of the Cross does not have to happen again in baptism."

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

This makes no sense.

Q: What remitted the sins at Calvary?
A: The application of Christ's shed blood.

You've already said all sins were remitted at Calvary. What is the power of the blood being invoked to do in baptism?

Is the blood applied twice?

The blood was shed for ALL mankind Jn.1:29 their sins were taken away, However multitudes will die and go to Hell to burn for eternity though forgiveness and remission of sins were paid for and accomplished. Man personally has to accept Calvary's pardon purchased by His precious blood. That happens when the penitent is immersed in water in Jesus Name. ONLY baptism in Jesus Name does the penitent receive remission of sins provided for at Calvary.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The blood was shed for ALL mankind Jn.1:29 their sins were taken away, However multitudes will die and go to Hell to burn for eternity though forgiveness and remission of sins were paid for and accomplished. Man personally has to accept Calvary's pardon purchased by His precious blood. That happens when the penitent is immersed in water in Jesus Name. ONLY baptism in Jesus Name does the penitent receive remission of sins provided for at Calvary.

What happens at repentance?