My Name is on www.wedeclare.org

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I say good for you Papa. It's good that there are still at leats 300+ men who stand for somethign in the UPC.

When the majority of the UPC and other organizations that continue to get into bed with teh charismatic crowd end up as nothing more than Vinyard churches falsely claiming to be Apostolic, it is good to know that there will still be at least some men who have the guts to preach that we be seperate from the world.

They may not be correct on all accounts, embracing a sliver of legalism in many cases, but that is far less dangerous and destructive than the alternative.

Following Jesus is destructive?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Raven

Am I the only one having trouble reading clearly the statements of wedeclare.org? This posting by PapaBear makes me wonder what they are saying. Perhaps it's all a misunderstanding due to some poor writing and composition?
ie: "In addition, these things are your Mothers, Grandmothers, and the very image of people who have done so many wonderful things." What??? Someone translate please!

Raven

..maybe they will throw that stament on the wedclare site next.

[*AQuietPlace*]

it is good to know that there will still be at least some men who have the guts to preach that we be seperate from the world.

Could we please start correcting this erroneous statement?

"It is good to know that some men still preach that women should be separate from the world."

There. That's more factual.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This attitude frustrates me no end.

Anyone who disagrees with someone's interpretation is swine.

Papabear sounds an awlful lot like yisraelm.....makes you wonder how many nick's some people post under.

[MissBrattified]

I'm sorry, but this was not well thought out. Whether the original intent was noble or not (and I'm not convinced that it was), it only serves to divide, exclude, and create yet another "list" for ministers to look at in deciding who gets to preach in their church.

We don't need "wedeclare", we don't need the WPF, and we don't need ANY more broken down, splintered off, exclusive factions of Pentecost trying to place walls around their particular interpretation of scripture.

My biggest reaction to www.wedeclare.org is "oh, the irony."

It is a crying shame when you post a doctrinal statement that puts forth the core doctrines of Pentecost, the things we ALL agree on, the things that lead to SALVATION of the lost, and then you cheapen them by placing issues of outward appearance on the same level.

It's like calling fornication and wearing makeup equivalent sins. Dragging young people to the altar for watching movies, just as quick as you'd haul them there for telling lies.

These issues are NOT on the same level, and don't belong in the same document.

Why not create a document that will serve to unify, and emphasize what we ALL can agree on?

Or wasn't that your goal? To unify?

Did you want to exclude people from the "wedeclare" list who believe it's alright for women to trim their hair or to wear "bifurcated" garments? Was THAT the goal?

And who decided those were the main points of "holiness" that needed to be hung on to? That those were the only important ones?

And this one:

"Biblical modesty precludes (prohibits) excessive jewelry, painting of the face, coloring of the hair, short skirts, mini skirts, shorts, sleeveless dresses or shirts, and low necklines."

BIBLICAL modesty "prohibits"????? It does? You have scripture for that?

The word "modest" is only listed in the Bible ONE TIME.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

If you take this verse LITERALLY, the ONLY things you can exclude are "braids, gold, pearls, and expensive clothing." Well, your wives and girlfriends are already guilty then, on at least 2 of the 4, and often 3 of the 4. If they wear sweaters with pearl buttons, well, then....it's all 4 prohibitions. Do they pay a lot of money for their dresses and shoes? Uh-oh.

I'm afraid your "prohibitions" in #6 are ANYTHING but "biblical", and the first three declarations are cheapened by association. #'s 4, 5 & 6 are issues that should be shared, taught and applied by the LOCAL church leadership, IF at all.

It would have been SO much more impressive if you had listed THESE scriptures in reference to holiness, and it is SO revealing that you did not:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

[Sherri]

Once again, Miss B, you've said everything I was wanting to say. Thanks for saving me the time!

[Nitehawk013]

Broidered is not braided. Very different.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Broidered is not braided. Very different.

I'm aware of the actual meaning, Nitehawk. Broided hair is hair that has things woven INTO it, like gold and silver, etc.

[n david]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm sorry, but this was not well thought out. Whether the original intent was noble or not (and I'm not convinced that it was), it only serves to divide, exclude, and create yet another "list" for ministers to look at in deciding who gets to preach in their church.

We don't need "wedeclare", we don't need the WPF, and we don't need ANY more broken down, splintered off, exclusive factions of Pentecost trying to place walls around their particular interpretation of scripture.

My biggest reaction to www.wedeclare.org is "oh, the irony."

It is a crying shame when you post a doctrinal statement that puts forth the core doctrines of Pentecost, the things we ALL agree on, the things that lead to SALVATION of the lost, and then you cheapen them by placing issues of outward appearance on the same level.

It's like calling fornication and wearing makeup equivalent sins. Dragging young people to the altar for watching movies, just as quick as you'd haul them there for telling lies.

These issues are NOT on the same level, and don't belong in the same document.

Why not create a document that will serve to unify, and emphasize what we ALL can agree on?

Or wasn't that your goal? To unify?

Did you want to exclude people from the "wedeclare" list who believe it's alright for women to trim their hair or to wear "bifurcated" garments? Was THAT the goal?

And who decided those were the main points of "holiness" that needed to be hung on to? That those were the only important ones?

And this one:

"Biblical modesty precludes (prohibits) excessive jewelry, painting of the face, coloring of the hair, short skirts, mini skirts, shorts, sleeveless dresses or shirts, and low necklines."

BIBLICAL modesty "prohibits"????? It does? You have scripture for that?

The word "modest" is only listed in the Bible ONE TIME.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

If you take this verse LITERALLY, the ONLY things you can exclude are "braids, gold, pearls, and expensive clothing." Well, your wives and girlfriends are already guilty then, on at least 2 of the 4, and often 3 of the 4. If they wear sweaters with pearl buttons, well, then....it's all 4 prohibitions. Do they pay a lot of money for their dresses and shoes? Uh-oh.

I'm afraid your "prohibitions" in #6 are ANYTHING but "biblical", and the first three declarations are cheapened by association. #'s 4, 5 & 6 are issues that should be shared, taught and applied by the LOCAL church leadership, IF at all.

It would have been SO much more impressive if you had listed THESE scriptures in reference to holiness, and it is SO revealing that you did not:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Great post!

As for the last verse - whether properly interpreted ... or even by principle of the thing - the wedeclare(ation) of war website and members find themselves on the wrong side of this scripture.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm sorry, but this was not well thought out. Whether the original intent was noble or not (and I'm not convinced that it was), it only serves to divide, exclude, and create yet another "list" for ministers to look at in deciding who gets to preach in their church.

We don't need "wedeclare", we don't need the WPF, and we don't need ANY more broken down, splintered off, exclusive factions of Pentecost trying to place walls around their particular interpretation of scripture.

My biggest reaction to www.wedeclare.org is "oh, the irony."

It is a crying shame when you post a doctrinal statement that puts forth the core doctrines of Pentecost, the things we ALL agree on, the things that lead to SALVATION of the lost, and then you cheapen them by placing issues of outward appearance on the same level.

It's like calling fornication and wearing makeup equivalent sins. Dragging young people to the altar for watching movies, just as quick as you'd haul them there for telling lies.

These issues are NOT on the same level, and don't belong in the same document.

Why not create a document that will serve to unify, and emphasize what we ALL can agree on?

Or wasn't that your goal? To unify?

Did you want to exclude people from the "wedeclare" list who believe it's alright for women to trim their hair or to wear "bifurcated" garments? Was THAT the goal?

And who decided those were the main points of "holiness" that needed to be hung on to? That those were the only important ones?

And this one:

"Biblical modesty precludes (prohibits) excessive jewelry, painting of the face, coloring of the hair, short skirts, mini skirts, shorts, sleeveless dresses or shirts, and low necklines."

BIBLICAL modesty "prohibits"????? It does? You have scripture for that?

The word "modest" is only listed in the Bible ONE TIME.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

If you take this verse LITERALLY, the ONLY things you can exclude are "braids, gold, pearls, and expensive clothing." Well, your wives and girlfriends are already guilty then, on at least 2 of the 4, and often 3 of the 4. If they wear sweaters with pearl buttons, well, then....it's all 4 prohibitions. Do they pay a lot of money for their dresses and shoes? Uh-oh.

I'm afraid your "prohibitions" in #6 are ANYTHING but "biblical", and the first three declarations are cheapened by association. #'s 4, 5 & 6 are issues that should be shared, taught and applied by the LOCAL church leadership, IF at all.

It would have been SO much more impressive if you had listed THESE scriptures in reference to holiness, and it is SO revealing that you did not:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Great post.