That is a good topic. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.
We can focus on clothes and makeup etc and forget the big picture, which is life lived in submission to the will of God, everything needs to yeild to that, whether it is what we do, say, wear, where we go.. all of it and how it impacts others.
We should be asking ourselves what can I do to be better for Jesus when instead we ask "what can I get away with and stay saved"
Philippians 4:8 KJVR
(8) Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Filtering the Lawful but expedient things through the lens of Ph 4:8 by asking:
Is _______ true?
Is _______ honest?
Is _______ just?
Is _______ lovely?
Is _______ of good report?
Is _______ virtuous?
Is _______ praise?
Applying this to not only thoughts but actions.
I am thinking that if we apply this principle to everything from clothing to activity then we will find that we don't need a master list of do's and don'ts to guide us.
And that many of the expedient things that are lawful but not convenient will be shed as we seek to live closer to Jesus.
I don't always succeed at this but I try.
That is exactly my point. I like it!
It is a bit corny, but I am reminded of the speech Jeff Golblum gave in Jurassic Park. When they are discussing hte re-creation of the dinosaurs and the possible dangers, he says the doctors were so busy asking themselves "can we do it" that no one took the time to ask whether they should do it.
This generation of "enlightened" individuals due to the internet age is great at asking "can I", but they stink at asking the more important question of "should I".
Can I drink beer bibliacally? The better question is should you. Can I throw out distinction in dress? The better question is should you. Do I have to pay tithes? The better question is should you financially support your church. Can I watch TV? The better question is should you flood your home with all the trash on it. ( I do have a TV btw, but am pretty careful about what is watched) Can I have church at home since I just don't really like any churches? The better question is what gives you the right to forsake the assembly.
Everyone is stuck on the immature questions like my 3 year old step son asks: "can I". They refuse to ask the more grown up question: "should I" or "is this good for me".
It is a bit corny, but I am reminded of the speech Jeff Golblum gave in Jurassic Park. When they are discussing hte re-creation of the dinosaurs and the possible dangers, he says the doctors were so busy asking themselves "can we do it" that no one took the time to ask whether they should do it.
This generation of "enlightened" individuals due to the internet age is great at asking "can I", but they stink at asking the more important question of "should I".
Can I drink beer bibliacally? The better question is should you. Can I throw out distinction in dress? The better question is should you. Do I have to pay tithes? The better question is should you financially support your church. Can I watch TV? The better question is should you flood your home with all the trash on it. ( I do have a TV btw, but am pretty careful about what is watched) Can I have church at home since I just don't really like any churches? The better question is what gives you the right to forsake the assembly.
Everyone is stuck on the immature questions like my 3 year old step son asks: "can I". They refuse to ask the more grown up question: "should I" or "is this good for me".
Are there people actually asking "can I"?
Once again, I say the problem is inconsistency. One church allows rings, another doesn't, one church allows hair trimming, another one makes it an heaven/hell issue. They aren't asking so much "can I', but more why are we making such a big deal over something that's so inconsistent throughout the organization!
Everyone is stuck on the immature questions like my 3 year old step son asks: "can I". They refuse to ask the more grown up question: "should I" or "is this good for me".
You have some good points, but you are painting with a very broad brush here, and in my experience you're very wrong.
It's an assumption that most seem to have.... question the standards, and you're just trying to "get by". My experience has been, from the people I know personally, that we are earnestly seeking TRUTH. It would be EASIER for me - MUCH easier - to believe that our standards are biblical and required. It has caused me a lot of personal anguish to come to the understanding that most of these things don't have a biblical basis. As a matter of fact, I still live by the majority of the rules, so I'm obviously not just trying to find a way "out".
But I have to tell my children the truth. My teen daughter and I just had a long discussion the other night. She's a very "rules-based" person. She sees everything in black and white. I heard that she had told my mother that she didn't like a certain group of kids, and didn't think they lived right. I asked her why. Her answer - 'they wear short sleeves'.
THAT'S the problem we're facing, and that's the point of this thread.
So my daughter and I had to have a long talk. To talk about the difference between sin and tradition. When we have elevated tradition to the level of sin.... that's sad.
You have some good points, but you are painting with a very broad brush here, and in my experience you're very wrong.
It's an assumption that most seem to have.... question the standards, and you're just trying to "get by". My experience has been, from the people I know personally, that we are earnestly seeking TRUTH. It would be EASIER for me - MUCH easier - to believe that our standards are biblical and required. It has caused me a lot of personal anguish to come to the understanding that most of these things don't have a biblical basis. As a matter of fact, I still live by the majority of the rules, so I'm obviously not just trying to find a way "out".
But I have to tell my children the truth. My teen daughter and I just had a long discussion the other night. She's a very "rules-based" person. She sees everything in black and white. I heard that she had told my mother that she didn't like a certain group of kids, and didn't think they lived right. I asked her why. Her answer - 'they wear short sleeves'.
THAT'S the problem we're facing, and that's the point of this thread.
So my daughter and I had to have a long talk. To talk about the difference between sin and tradition. When we have elevated tradition to the level of sin.... that's sad.
You are exactly right! Especially that last sentence!
The ones that don't understand that are the ones saying others just want to run wild and do everything. It's not that at all.
I am just glad I have 2 boys and no girls us boys don't have a dress code...LOL If we did have a girl I think it would really effect me and my wife on certain "traditions"
I am working on a sermon/lesson for the end of this month on the issue of Lawful versus Expedient. It comes down to just this sort of thing. Obviously it isn't a strictly standards lesson. It goes into all areas of our Christian life.
Everyone gets so stuck on asking "am I allowed to ____" instead of asking the right question which is "should I ___" or "is it good for me and those around me if I ____".
OK. Should I go to strip clubs?
Quote:
Everything is lawful for us now that we are in the new covenant.
Woohoo!
Quote:
That doesn't mean we should do a whole lot of things that are not good for us.
Doh!
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Just because God doesn't say "thou shalt not" doesn't mean we should go about doing it. We ought to have enough judgment, conviction and Holy Ghost to not do some things even if they are genuinely lawful for us.
Quote:
I may lawfully get away with a good many things that we teach against. That doesn't mean doing those things is expedient or good for me or others. "Is it lawful" is the wrong question.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
It isn't sin to break tradition. That doesn't mean it is healthy though either.
But that's really not the point of the thread. The point is that we have elevated our traditions to the level of "break 'em - you're sinning". And way too often we focus on these issues more than we focus on what Jesus did for us, and what true Christianity is.
I would love to go to a conference sometime and hear a message on bitterness. Backbiting. Gossip. Giving to the poor. Charity suffereth long and is kind. The problem with that? That's not conference material. The crowd would be sitting very quietly and squirming. That's not the stuff that gets people leaping to their feet and yelling. But I have a feeling that if Jesus was the conference speaker, that's probably what he'd be preaching.
Why doesn't someone start a website proclaiming that they are holding to these Old Paths:
We Proclaim That We Believe in giving to the poor, loving our neighbor, being longsuffering, thinking no evil, demonstrating love, joy, peace.... etc?
Why don't we hold to the Apostolic Distinctive of Loving One Another? After all, that's the apostolic distinctive that Jesus seemed to think was important.
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