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  #11  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:10 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Anglin View Post
I can't find anything in it to disagree with.

And that makes me mad!!!!

Well, I can point out quite a bit!!!
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:42 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Would have had more impact if it had come from a "saint" rather than a pastor saying "respect me, be thankful for me and everything I do for you, cut me some slack, etc."
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:51 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Instruction #9 - Worship Spontaneously


LOL... now to me that seems to to contradictory.
"I'm telling you NOW! Worship spontaneously!"

The whole list about going to your pastor "before you mess things up" and then adding #5 - "Give Him Some Space" seems contradictory to me as well.

Either this "pastor" has managed only to reach the country's population of mental health patients, or he seems to want to add to that population.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:53 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Would have had more impact if it had come from a "saint" rather than a pastor saying "respect me, be thankful for me and everything I do for you, cut me some slack, etc."
Ah, c'mon Tim-Tim; cut me some slack. Or should I have someone else post that for me?
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2009, 01:55 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Anglin View Post
I can't find anything in it to disagree with.

And that makes me mad!!!!
Does it make you feel better that I pretty much disagreed with everything??
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:16 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

It’s rather brilliant actually. Sam’s other thread on “The Spirit of Control,” exhibited examples so extreme, even a peanut could recognize the dangers of abuse clearly. However, the subtle approach is the way to go. It really shows how one can pull off the twisted version of Hebrews 13:17 unnoticed to the untrained mind. Tailor the golden rule to your particular church structure, and you have beautiful business model for organized religion.

Most of these “rules of etiquette” are designed to remove stress from the leadership of the clergy/laity type of church. It’s wonderfully written and sounds gentle and sweet. I guess if you were going to make the church a “business,” that’s how the corporate policy would read.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:33 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

Was Pentecost like this before the shepherding movement of the 70s and 80s?

I've read Pentecostal history where people went out and started churches, moved repeatedly even to areas without churches, had prayer meetings and bible study fellowships in their homes. My pastor won't "allow" any of this now. He would totally agree with the letter to saints. Can I write a letter to pastors? Please???
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:53 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

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Originally Posted by missourimary View Post
Was Pentecost like this before the shepherding movement of the 70s and 80s?

I've read Pentecostal history where people went out and started churches, moved repeatedly even to areas without churches, had prayer meetings and bible study fellowships in their homes. My pastor won't "allow" any of this now. He would totally agree with the letter to saints. Can I write a letter to pastors? Please???
Uh... no, don't write and don't think. Just obey.

This also goes a bit farther back than the 1970's. There were those in the 1950's who implemented this program. Their cause was to bring the entire UPCI into their line of thinking following the merger.

They'd had enough of Howard Goss's articles in the Herald about the "tri-unity of God" and other such compromises. They knew that they'd have to be tough to get their churches and the UPC as a whole "clean."

We are what we are today due in large measure to the activities of these men. They set the stage.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2009, 03:25 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor

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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
What think ye?



Dear Saint,

So, you are a devoted saint in your local church, and support your pastor. You give happily into the church of your time and finances, and don't cause any trouble. But still, there are a few things your pastor wishes you knew that would make his job easier and_ more enjoyable. If only you knew what they were! And as a pastor myself (for too many years to mention), I'm about to reveal those valuable secrets to you! Interested yet?

Hebrews 13:17 instructs us to, "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." The first thing you should know as a loving saint is that your pastor wants to take joy in serving you... but it's your job to help him do it.

••First of all, the "Us Vs. Them" mentality that often accompanies the ministry is unnecessary and harmful. We're all on the same team and both have equal value.

Here are a few things that will help your pastor enjoy his servant status in the church.

1. Notify him when you aren't going to show up.

Whether you are in a position of leadership or not, you should notify him when you will not be at church, at a church social or other event. Unless, of course, you are afraid your excuse for not being there is too lame. (ahem, ahem.) Put his mind at ease by giving him a quick phone call well in advance of your absence or tardiness.

••Sounds like, "I want to control your life." And it also sounds like he's ticked that someone went fishing instead of church, rather than a concern over why someone wasn't there. If your church gets very large at all, do you really want everyone calling who won't be there? Better get several lines.

2. Don't talk him down to other saints.

This includes questioning his judgment and/or decisions. If you have a concern about your pastor, you should talk about it to no one but him. Otherwise, you are unwittingly (or purposely?) destroying the work he is trying to do in the church. I have watched seasoned saints destroy new Christians by eroding their faith in, and respect for, their pastor. I have also, over the years, watched the pastor's authority questioned, overridden, and undermined by people in the church that he has trusted, and given responsibility and authority to. God forbid that this injustice should happen within the church.

••Matthew 18 is pretty clear. If you have a problem with a person, go that person. Alone. So yeah, don't talk him down. But really, don't talk anyone down.

3. Don't allow other saints to talk him down.

Stand up for your pastor if other saints in the church begin to "roast him for Sunday dinner". When I was a saint in my pastor's church, I would vehemently protect him from slander from other saints. I would interrupt this enemy of the man of God and clearly remind them that Psalm 105:15 says, "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm."

••That verse gets really abused but I never like lunches or dinners when the food is a person and not a hamburger.

4. Ask for advice before you make a decision, not after you have messed things up.

I can't begin to count how many times I've watched people go to their pastor and ask for advice on how to fix their problem, when they could have completely avoided it by talking to him before it happened. Your pastor is there to give you guidance and wisdom, and help you avoid troubles. Why not invite him into your decisions and let his Godly counsel help keep you from costly mistakes? This will both keep you from unnecessary grief, and make his life a lot easier.

••Sounds like control again. But wise counsel is always a good thing....a multitude of it (Proverbs), not just your pastor.

5. Give him some space

If you are a needy person who demands attention from your leaders, do your pastor a favor and find other outlets to help fill this need. You are not the only person in the church that has problems, needs prayer, etc. It's perfectly fine to contact your pastor on occasion, as he is there to serve you, but if you constantly nag him, interrupt his dinner time, family time, personal social time, prayer time, or study time, he will begin to regret helping you. He will no longer be serving you with joy, but rather with grief. Give him a little space.

••Whoa, whoa.....I thought you wanted people to ask you about everything and call you when they have a runny nose and can't come to church. So is this, "Don't do anything without my approval but oh yeah, don't bother me either"?

6. Don't just point out problems, but offer to help fix it

This goes with both interpersonal problems within the church, and broken things in the building. Chances are your pastor already knows of these problems, but has not had a chance to solve them yet... What he doesn't need is another person to remind him without offering to lift a finger to help.

••Amen! But if you want people to help, they can't be bullied, controlled, or owned.

7. Say, "Thank You"

This is a very valuable gift you can give your pastor that will not cost you a dime. Out of the blue, just tell him how much you appreciate the sacrifice he has made for the church... the late night prayers; the times he has sacrificed his own family time for the saints; the money he gives out of his pocket to help someone through a difficult time; the trips to the hospital, funeral homes and open houses. I recall many times I've helped people out with money, food, rent, resolving family fights, and more, and not received so much as a simple, "Thank you." It's true that we, as pastors, serve the saints as though we are serving the Lord, but sometimes the ungratefulness of those we help can really hurt. So, send your pastor a card, give him a phone call or an email, pat him on the back at church. You don't have to over-do it, or even do it often, but just sometimes, it's nice to hear those two magical words.

••Commendation is great. We all love it. But ultimately, we're doing this all for the Lord even if no one notices. (I can't stand Pastor Appreciation Month)

8. Preach with him

Do you agree with what your pastor is preaching? Then let him know. Don't just nod your head as you're falling asleep during his sermon... do it to let him know he's connecting with you. It's OK to say, "Amen" out loud when you agree with a point he's made. This will both encourage him and others around you. Feel like standing up and giving an enthusiastic fist-pump, coupled with a hearty, "Preach it!"? By all means, please do! He really likes that!

••If you listen to what I have to say, and better yet, find out how you can apply some of it to your everyday life, that's much better than the fist-pumps.

9. Worship Spontaneously

Preaching is an emotional and physical drain. Your spontaneous worship is the grease on the skids of the service. When you worship without prompting, an atmosphere is created where God can have His way in the lives of guests. It also saves the energy of the Pastor for what is most important, the Word of God.

••Sometimes listening to preaching can be a physical and emotional drain. Worship is done in how we live our lives, not something that happens when the music starts.

10. Treat his family with love and respect

Your pastor's family sacrifices every time he leaves home to spend time with you... every time he runs an errand on church business, or closes the door to his study to seek God's direction for the church. They put up with a lot so that you have a good place to worship. They sacrifice. Please treat them well. Pastors worry that their family will suffer for the sake of the ministry, and it is a great encouragement to them when the church helps take care of the ones he loves.

••We should all be taking care of each other.

11. Check on him and ask if there is anything you can do

Serving is his life. His time is not his own. It belongs to the work of God. Therefore, you need to serve him. Care for his needs. Simple things like serving his table at gatherings. Check to see if he or his wife need anything.

••Serving his table at gatherings?? Uhhhh.......

12. Take ownership of the church

This could be a book in itself, but I will simply offer these points...
1. Bring people to it
2. Attend every service you can
3. Keep it clean
4. Give of your finances to it
5. Give of your time to it
6. Respect it
7. Bring people to it (did I already say that?)

••To items 1 & 7 I would just say, "They need a reason to."

I honestly think each of these points deserves an article, or book, of its own, but I will leave it at this for now. All of the above mentioned tips are merely the natural result of a love and respect for the man of God, your pastor.

My Dad gave me some good advice about cars a long time ago that I think fits well here. He said, "If you're good to your car, it will be good to you."

••And to every pastor, I would say, if you are good to your church, they will be good to you. If you take care of the church, God will take care of you.

Nicely put, Dad.

Sincerely,

Seasoned Pastor
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Last edited by notofworks; 11-13-2009 at 03:51 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2009, 03:41 PM
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Re: Letter from the Pastor



NOW, AMEN!!!!
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