Christmas/Holidays

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pagan Christianity and other books like it are excellent at revealing the origins of most Christian practices and methods today. For example the following are purely pagan or OT observances that are not found in the biblical NT church:

Steeples
Sermons
Large Cathedrals
Altar Calls
Tithing
Dressing up for church
Eucharist
Clergy
Centralized teaching

And the list could go on and on. Yes, even the “sermon” is pagan. Biblical “sermons” weren’t Aristotelian rhetoric with points and applications outlined in a prepared fashion as we hear today from our pulpits. Biblical sermons were essentially free style teaching from the heart with the interaction of the gathered body. If you are not allowed to stand up and ask a question in church while your pastor is “preaching” his prepared “sermon”… you might be a pagan.

The opening poem is worth the price of the book.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by NewWine

My response is the blue font




Aquila ~ Thank you for the summation of “Pagan Christianity”

If the subject interests you, Amazon.com, usually has a wide range of opinions from those who have read the book. Sometimes if there is only one or two opinions, I have to wonder if they were written by friends of the author and therefore biased.

This book received 292 reviews. Very impressive. There is also a function on Amazon that allows you to look into the book at the table of contents and read a allotted portion of the text. A trip to the book store might be in order if you want to look at it more before you buy it. But if you're an avid reader, you probably know all of this.

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christia.../dp/141431485X

[Aquila]

I think most people would be shocked if they knew the origin of steeples. Yes, we have huge phalic symbols on our churches that represent ancient pagan fertility rites.

Dressing up for church... in the Roman Empire it was a criminal offence to come before a Roman official in common clothing. When the church became Romanized under the Trinitarians clergy became Roman officials and so dressing up for church was enforced. People would actually be removed from congregations by force if their clothing was too common in the eyes of the clergy. Prior to this the church had met in homes and worshiped informally in their everyday attire.

Sermons, as we know them, are designed based on Aristotlean rhetoric popularized by the pagan Sophists. These saught to use language, speech, and persuasion, as a method of swaying the masses to their philosophical opinion. To interrupt a sermon was highly offensive and disrespectful to the authority of these pagan philosophers. Paul taught using a dialogue throughout Scripture. The early church would meet in homes and the elder would open up Scripture and teach from it. All present would ask questions and "discuss" the passage in question so that all shared their understanding and so that any misunderstandings were corrected. Often those attending would bring passages they wanted explained or wanted to share with the congregation. It was very informal and free style and could last well into the night, much like Scriptural discussions among rabbis and Jewish men.

Tithing was resurrected by the Catholic church after 700 years of free giving being the Apostolic model of giving. The tithe (religious tax) was instituted and enforced by the magistrates at the behest of the Catholic clergy. The funds were used to build the massive Cathedrals.

Plato and other Greek philosophers extensively commented on the power of "structure" to bring awe and condition the human mind to subserviance. Hence cathedrals were enormous and extravagant to condition the masses by instilling awe and fear of the church.

Public gatherings with worship structues (liturgies) were designed to keep the common believer from thinking freely during worship. It also prevented questions and outbursts that might challenge institutional authority.

I find it amazing that those who believe that holidays are pagan and swear against them still practice a very paganized Christianity.

Anyway... the date of Christmas is based on an ancient Jewish belief in integral age. Aurilean resurrected the pagan customs to challenge growing worship of the Savior by the rememberance of his birth that was prevalent during this season.

The rest are cultural customs. I know Irish believers who wear their cultural garb to their churches during cultural holidays. I also know of Africans who dress in their cultural garb on cultural holidays when attending church. There seems to be a war against our European cultural heritage. This need not be.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Anyway... the date of Christmas is based on an ancient Jewish belief in integral age.

I have a comment or two on this but first... where did you get this information from?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I have a comment or two on this but first... where did you get this information from?

Various sources. I suggest you do some research. You might want to start by Googling:

"integral age" Judaism and Christmas

[NewWine]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

If the subject interests you, Amazon.com, usually has a wide range of opinions from those who have read the book. Sometimes if there is only one or two opinions, I have to wonder if they were written by friends of the author and therefore biased.

This book received 292 reviews. Very impressive. There is also a function on Amazon that allows you to look into the book at the table of contents and read a allotted portion of the text. A trip to the book store might be in order if you want to look at it more before you buy it. But if you're an avid reader, you probably know all of this.

http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christia.../dp/141431485X

Thank you very much for the link. I actually just found two books entitled Pagan Christianity; and read some of the reviews. If I don't find it at a local book store I will definitely be ordering it from Amazon. I just called my father and read some of the reviews to him, and he is wanting to read the book.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

We certainly do NOT worship trees in this house.

(But we do decorate one and put it in the front window with lights twinkling! )

I just feel that I am in charge of how a day--any day--is focused. If I happen to be in New Orleans during Mardi Gras--I will not be participating, but I MIGHT have a slice of King Cake.

Every day in this house honors God, first and foremost, and any holiday we celebrate is centered around Him in some way--even birthdays.

If some people feel they have to avoid certain celebrations, that is them, and that is their stumbling block. I have no desire to foist Christmas upon them. However, they shouldn't look around at other Christians who celebrate and judge them as pagans and heathens, especially when many people focus on charity and family more than ever at this time of year--both very good things.

This is the way I feel about it.

And I have studied the subject a lot. I used to attend a non-Christmas church, so I've heard all of the arguments against it. I studied it intently, and determined that for me - I had liberty to celebrate it. It's a wonderful family holiday for us, and a beautiful time of the year!

[Mary Poppins]

howdy peoples

I stumbled on this thread and AFF googling to try to find others who aren't living in a vacuum where things can mean whatever you want them to mean and have no attachment to their origins.
why would I google such a thing?
because, my boyfriend and I decided we're never getting married and broke up for good... why? because he insists on the celebrating and partaking of Christmas and I want nothing to do with it. (He has other more important faults so I'm okay with it, but our only issue in his eyes is that I won't celebrate it)

I also recently came across this: http://www.simpletoremember.com/vita...eRealStory.htm (listen to the audio if you have the time) which is a jewish perspective on the whole thing and very interesting. I've known the pagan origins since I was 5 yrs old and haven't celebrated it since but I didn't know the antisemitism that also is associated with it.

Also, re: the other pagan traditions that have come into our churches, just because its there doesn't mean it should be. Just because somewhere along the line we forgot what a little leaven does and started letting it in doesn't mean we can't repent and start doing it right. I don't think God finds half our traditions as cute and harmless as we seem to, He was around when traditions were established.

You have the day off work, hang out with the family and have a lovely time, but please, Jesus is not the reason for the season and He knows it.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Mary Poppins

howdy peoples

......
because, my boyfriend and I decided we're never getting married and broke up for good... why? because he insists on the celebrating and partaking of Christmas and I want nothing to do with it. (He has other more important faults so I'm okay with it, but our only issue in his eyes is that I won't celebrate it)
......

Come now. Did you break up (for good!) just because of Christmas? Or did another hunk cross your path and catch you eye? Wink wink nudge nudge say no more!

[Mary Poppins]

I wish. You think I'd have all this time on a weekend to spend online if that had happened? LOL

There were other issues but yeah, christmas was the straw that broke the camel's back... I admit I was praying for something to either finally end it or turn it into a wedding... but I didn't think it would be such a silly straw that would do the trick LOL