Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Why not apostle's shadows, or handkerchiefs? Maybe you ought to start another website, "Holy Magic Faith", and anyone who believes that God honors faith for healings or miracles are witch craft practitioners!!!

We don't know what was going on in that case, however consider this. The lady that thought if she just touched the hem of His garment she would be healed. And she was. She was not focused on the hem. She was focused on Jesus.

But this was not taught. It was not said to be a focus (rhymes with hocus pocus). It was not a repeated action. They did not objectify anything.

Peter apparently was anointed like Jesus was, to heal. What we do today is unbiblical. We call for the elders and they pray over the hankerchief.

But what they are doing it seems is asking Jesus (the focus of our faith) to do this for us since we can't get there.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

You clearly are rejecting the testimonies of anyone who claims to have received or observed such a miracle. I have already stated, I personally have met a young man who was in a tragic, near fatal auto accident. He was on the verge of having internal surgury that would have put him with a colostomy bag the rest of his life. A praying sister in the church went into his hospital room the night before some final tests before surgery, laid her hair out over the young man and prayed and wept. The tests the following day confirmed the situation had "reversed itself", and the young man is now in his early 20's living for God! I met both the woman and the young man personally. I also met the driver of the automobile, who was a pastor of a local church, all had the same testimony as well as hospital tests and documents to verify the situation. Now, if you're are on a witch hunt for the sake of witch hunt, no amount of provided "evidence" or testimony is going to satisfy you... if you have a discriminate but open mind about God's miracle working power, you may possibly concede that anything is a possibility with God. These are not witchcraft practitioners, they are fully regenerated apostolic believers.

I remember a saying LS used to say years ago about receiving the Holy Ghost: "Did they get it because us, or inspite of us". My point?

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc (with this, therefore because of this).
This is the familiar fallacy of mistaking correlation for causation -- i.e., thinking that because two things occur simultaneously, one must be a cause of the other.

Just because she did that does not mean the miracle had anything to do with her hair. God heals on the basis of OUR FAITH.

And for the record, I know Roman Catholics that attribute healings to novena's they prayed or to prayers to Mary etc etc

And what I read was "a praying young woman....hair...." where was Jesus in all that? That is not God's purpose. He should get the glory. The only thing I see here is that God heard the voice of a praying woman and God healed him.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I believe he did, but BD is the first one to tie "focused faith" to holy hair issue.

ummmm.... DKB used the term in HIS PAPER dealing with the hair issue....

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

BD, if I may present an observation here, you are asking us to believe your anectdotal story about this young man, and yet when Dizzy mentioned something she had heard with her own ears, you accused her of being "flagrantly defamatory, I believe........and making assumptions and "libelous statements".......when she was just relating personal experience to prove her point..........see why some of us are a bit confused?

I can see what you are saying. My response to Dizzy was too reactionary... My perception was that she already had a bias regarding this subject, and that what she heard and the way she presented it was not objective, and I also perceived her intent may have been malicious. Thus in that instant, I admit my perceptions may have been inaccurate, and my response contributed to the deterioration in rhetoric at that point. Good observation MP....

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

You chastise us for "rejecting testimonies" of folks who were healed thru the laying on of the hair, it's only fair that we should ask you to offer the same proof that you ask of us when we relate stories of LS and his preaching.

I understand your angst here. I am not trying to offer anecdotal evidence on it's own, as in a preacher who merely offers unsubstiantiated story upon story that supports his premise. And I understand someone wanting hard fact evidence. I can assure that this was a real instant, I can name names and places, but I will not if only for the protection of the sanctity of those involved. If that means my recount of the testimonies of those involved in this incident (which I heard directly from the people involved on a person to person basis, not from pulpit anecdotes) is disregarded as anecdotal, so be it.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We don't know what was going on in that case, however consider this. The lady that thought if she just touched the hem of His garment she would be healed. And she was. She was not focused on the hem. She was focused on Jesus.

But this was not taught. It was not said to be a focus (rhymes with hocus pocus). It was not a repeated action. They did not objectify anything.

Peter apparently was anointed like Jesus was, to heal. What we do today is unbiblical. We call for the elders and they pray over the hankerchief.

But what they are doing it seems is asking Jesus (the focus of our faith) to do this for us since we can't get there.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I remember a saying LS used to say years ago about receiving the Holy Ghost: "Did they get it because us, or inspite of us". My point?

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc (with this, therefore because of this).
This is the familiar fallacy of mistaking correlation for causation -- i.e., thinking that because two things occur simultaneously, one must be a cause of the other.

Just because she did that does not mean the miracle had anything to do with her hair. God heals on the basis of OUR FAITH.

And for the record, I know Roman Catholics that attribute healings to novena's they prayed or to prayers to Mary etc etc

And what I read was "a praying young woman....hair...." where was Jesus in all that? That is not God's purpose. He should get the glory. The only thing I see here is that God heard the voice of a praying woman and God healed him.

Good points. I agree with your assessment, especially in the last instance. Whether the sister laid her hair out, or merely prayed and allowed her faith the "carry" her prayers before the throne to believe God, the miracle was done. Either way it was the woman who prayed in faith, regardless of the hair, that had her prayer answered. My question here is: is it possible that the hair thing elevated her faith to a level to believe God for the miraculous, where her faith was not at that level prior? There is no way to quantify that, so the point is moot either way I suppose....

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I can see what you are saying. My response to Dizzy was too reactionary... My perception was that she already had a bias regarding this subject, and that what she heard and the way she presented it was not objective, and I also perceived her intent may have been malicious. Thus in that instant, I admit my perceptions may have been inaccurate, and my response contributed to the deterioration in rhetoric at that point. Good observation MP....



I understand your angst here. I am not trying to offer anecdotal evidence on it's own, as in a preacher who merely offers unsubstiantiated story upon story that supports his premise. And I understand someone wanting hard fact evidence. I can assure that this was a real instant, I can name names and places, but I will not if only for the protection of the sanctity of those involved. If that means my recount of the testimonies of those involved in this incident (which I heard directly from the people involved on a person to person basis, not from pulpit anecdotes) is disregarded as anecdotal, so be it.

Fair enough, thanks for your response. I should have taken this tack in the first place, I was just pointing out why some of us may have been a little defensive in the beginning.

[Carpenter]

I suppose laying hair across someone in faith is better than pouring hot wax over someone...with faith...

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by The Kid

I suppose laying hair across someone in faith is better than pouring hot wax over someone...with faith...

I disagree as long as I'm not the one being prayed for!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by The Kid

I suppose laying hair across someone in faith is better than pouring hot wax over someone...with faith...

I'm leaning more toward the hot wax method myself.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm leaning more toward the hot wax method myself.

Its all the same thing right? I saw where this one UPC dude during a time of refreshing called for folks to bring their hankys to be prayed over so they could be blessed...why not kill two birds with one stone and have folks bring in cans of chicken soup to be prayed over, that way when they are sick, they get sanctified goodness in every bite?