Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about this... can anyone bring forth real evidence that the use of a woman's uncut hair has ever been efficacious in bringing about a genuine miracle? There have been many claims and a lot of noise now about how we should just accept this practice because despite the constant appeals made by its proponents to articles and encyclopedias on witchcraft, this doesn't really involve anything like witchcraft. And, "many miracles" have taken place and "several prayers" have been answered.

How about a "Mount Carmel" exercise? Bring forth your uncut hair "aids to prayer" and let's see if God answers by fire.

And I mean real "fire" too. I've already seen the "prophets of Baal" jumping around and making a lot of noise. Let's see some fire from heaven if this is really what all the videos, sermons and books have claimed that it was.

POTD!

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by DAII

Yep! This notion of focusing faith is an interesting one and worthy of further discussion. I think the term faith itself has a unique value in some OP circles that may contrast with what biblical faith is. I too conjure images of an attempt to harness energy with how this described by DKB. Why not rosary beads or a crucifix? Why not other objects or even my obedient feet?

Why not apostle's shadows, or handkerchiefs? Maybe you ought to start another website, "Holy Magic Faith", and anyone who believes that God honors faith for healings or miracles are witch craft practitioners!!!

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about this... can anyone bring forth real evidence that the use of a woman's uncut hair has ever been efficacious in bringing about a genuine miracle? There have been many claims and a lot of noise now about how we should just accept this practice because despite the constant appeals made by its proponents to articles and encyclopedias on witchcraft, this doesn't really involve anything like witchcraft. And, "many miracles" have taken place and "several prayers" have been answered.

Pel, this statement was not made in integrity. How many times has LS referenced encyclopedias on witchcraft? I have only seen one single clip. Also, when I heard him recently, there was no allusion to witchcraft at all....

Originally Posted by pelathais

How about a "Mount Carmel" exercise? Bring forth your uncut hair "aids to prayer" and let's see if God answers by fire.

And I mean real "fire" too. I've already seen the "prophets of Baal" jumping around and making a lot of noise. Let's see some fire from heaven if this is really what all the videos, sermons and books have claimed that it was.

You clearly are rejecting the testimonies of anyone who claims to have received or observed such a miracle. I have already stated, I personally have met a young man who was in a tragic, near fatal auto accident. He was on the verge of having internal surgury that would have put him with a colostomy bag the rest of his life. A praying sister in the church went into his hospital room the night before some final tests before surgery, laid her hair out over the young man and prayed and wept. The tests the following day confirmed the situation had "reversed itself", and the young man is now in his early 20's living for God! I met both the woman and the young man personally. I also met the driver of the automobile, who was a pastor of a local church, all had the same testimony as well as hospital tests and documents to verify the situation. Now, if you're are on a witch hunt for the sake of witch hunt, no amount of provided "evidence" or testimony is going to satisfy you... if you have a discriminate but open mind about God's miracle working power, you may possibly concede that anything is a possibility with God. These are not witchcraft practitioners, they are fully regenerated apostolic believers.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Why not apostle's shadows, or handkerchiefs? Maybe you ought to start another website, "Holy Magic Faith", and anyone who believes that God honors faith for healings or miracles are witch craft practitioners!!!

Its called TBN and Daystar Television Fund Raisers.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Pel, this statement was not made in integrity. How many times has LS referenced encyclopedias on witchcraft? I have only seen one single clip. Also, when I heard him recently, there was no allusion to witchcraft at all....

Actually the reference was made in the book My Hair My Glory by Juli Jasinski and Stoneking lifted her pretty much verbatim. Its one of the best sellers at PPH and at the womens conferences.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I have already stated, I personally have met a young man who was in a tragic, near fatal auto accident. He was on the verge of having internal surgury that would have put him with a colostomy bag the rest of his life. A praying sister in the church went into his hospital room the night before some final tests before surgery, laid her hair out over the young man and prayed and wept. The tests the following day confirmed the situation had "reversed itself", and the young man is now in his early 20's living for God! I met both the woman and the young man personally. I also met the driver of the automobile, who was a pastor of a local church, all had the same testimony as well as hospital tests and documents to verify the situation.

Would the young man have been as likely to be healed if she hadn't laid her hair out over him? *Merely* prayed, and believed?

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have a problem with it, the reason is they are objectifying their own hair

Like handkerchiefs or shadows?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Im also a little leary of phrases like "focus your faith" which is unbiblical.

I prefer the term "elevate" faith... increase the level of faith... same thing. I have no doubt that "focus faith" has the same connotations... Possibly the reason you are leary of this concept, is because it challenges assertions that nothing can be done to increase faith, no act of demonstration or anything... this challenges those who say that "laying out hair" or "handing out handkerchiefs" or "laying in shadows" does nothing for individual faith...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Does a woman's hair somehow help them focus their faith more on Christ? How?

Does faith the grain of a mustard seed to move mountains focused on Christ? How? I think the issue is putting faith in the perspective to believe Christ's ability and willingness to perform the miracle. In these cases, it's as much about the present need, and seeing that need met, as it is about the person of Christ. All along the object of faith is Christ's ability, but the focus of faith is believing Christ's ability for that present need.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Our faith should be In Him and Him alone...it seems that, even in "focusing" faith they are under the impression that hair has something to do with it. Why not use a sock? Clearly because they have been led to believe there is something special to do with HER hair.

Why not use the apostle's shadows? Or handkerchiefs? The issue of the hair is primarily the interpretation of 1 Cor 11:10... "for this cause ought a woman to have power on her head because of the angels"...

Scripture elevates the object of hair at least to the level of demonstrative faithfulness, by giving a half-chapter of instruction regarding it. Scripture does this...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Can I rub my short hair and expect a miracle?

Go for it!

Originally Posted by Praxeas

All these examples really sound like objectifying woman's hair...it also sounds proud or even boastful.

Maybe... but it doesn't have to be...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That might be where the "magic" comes into play in the accusations. In fact it could be idolatry. Jews had that problem with Aaron's rod. Catholics objectify relics and expect miracles. They objectify statues and expect miracles. They objectify water from Lourdes

First century disciples had the problem of Peter's shadow, and Paul's handkerchiefs...

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Magic practioners use talismans not just because they think

Focus talisman

A talisman is an object, often a crystal or gemstone, that has a specific ability to aid a person in focusing and amplifying his or her power. A talisman is not a lucky rock. The power of a talisman is its ability to aid you in achieving the future you desire.

A talisman is both a focus and a natural amplifier.

A talisman is an amplifier of the Universal Life Force

As an amplifier, a talisman brings you the ability to join with the power and energy of the Universal Life Force and the Life Force of this planet. This power and energy serve to multiply your own individual efforts. A talisman is, in a way, similar to a flashlight.
http://www.crystalvaults.com/pages/talismans.php


When I hear or read these "examples" this is what comes to mind.



The bible never speaks of her hair being for that.


It never gave examples of being used for that

Peter's shadow, and Paul's handkerchiefs were clearly talismans.... Good one Prax! Instead of finding a moderated approach, it has to be either one extreme or the other.. as the pendulum swings, so goes human nature...

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Would the young man have been as likely to be healed if she hadn't laid her hair out over him? *Merely* prayed, and believed?

Yes, I think so... but I also think this is another case where individual faith can be elevated... Laying out hair does nothing for God, but it may do something for the petitioner reminding themselves that they have been faithful, that they do have a right to petition God, and that God said he would hear. Faith, when it comes to believing for miracles, is one of those aspects of Christianity that is somewhat elusive to grasp, but sometimes unconventional demonstrative acts do something in inidividual's perception, that allows them to believe and see their need provided.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Actually the reference was made in the book My Hair My Glory by Juli Jasinski and Stoneking lifted her pretty much verbatim. Its one of the best sellers at PPH and at the womens conferences.

Haven't seen the book, let alone read it. She appeals to witchcraft as an example of long hair power? If this is the case and what Pel was referencing, I'll apologize to him.. I was under the impression that the LS message was the one being identified...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I prefer the term "elevate" faith... increase the level of faith... same thing. I have no doubt that "focus faith" has the same connotations...

I believe you are the one that started the "focus faith"

I see this focus or elevated faith that you are thinking outloud about to be as non-Biblical as the power in the hair.

The focus faith I read about in the Bible is "where two or three are gathered.....and ask in my Name".....doesn't say and have uncut hair laid upon them or "elevated" faith.

I think you are tip-toeing in some dangerous waters.