Ok, for the most part, this thread isn't horribly serious (Timmy isn't going to leave his career and move across the country, just to be on my board) and the idea was to challenge our thinking (mine too) concerning the "Christian Bubble" and how open we are to those who don't toe the line of faith.
But I'm sorry, MoW, I'm not gonna publish on this thread how well I know Timmy. That's not fair to expect that of me. There's a bit of a safety of anonymity that should be understood here, and that should be respected.
And let's just say that IF my relationship with Timmy is, and will only be, limited to the internet....as Timmy would so well say....the "discernment" Christians claim should be decent enough to get a decent grip on his worthiness for the position. Furthermore, plenty of people have been grilled, face-to-face and plenty of time has been spent with people who we were certain were perfect for a position...and they ended up giving us hell. Putting someone into a position in a business, church, or group of any kind is never a sure thing.
I'm willing to take a wild guess here and say that not everyone you've placed into a position in your church, that you had thoroughly checked out, worked out. Sometimes, no matter how well we know a person, they're just not a good fit, or there was something no one knew.
Thanks, you answered my question. However, I would NEVER make an invitation to someone to even be on an advisory board without a face to face relationship. Which simply continues to answer the question, would I have Timmy on my "board?" Others may do it differently, but I would never do that no matter how they came across in writing or on the phone.
Apparently, you're willing to do so, and that's OK with me. It's just not how I would do it.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
I know you were trying to show your admiration and confidence in some of Timmy's abilities and traits but you chose an inappropriate way of doing that.
For you to make this statement in the first place is only exceeded in its bizzareness by your inability to see that it is an incredible lack of judgement to say that you would put someone you have only met via phone or internet on their church advisory board. Not only that but a person who is an agnostic or atheist. If you don't think there is a spiritual component to your advisory board even when they only deal with financial or ethical matters I really don't know what to say to you.
MOW has pretty much stated my take on this in his posts on this thread that I have read.
I have a feeling Timmy would think it would be inappropriate for him to be on a church advisory board and will take no offence at this. It is only common sense.
As far as you wondering about my previous comment about your sermon prep you said in a thread that you used to study 20-30 hours per week preparing for a sermon but decided that the time was better spent with people or something like that and now you put notes together Sunday mornings before church and preach from that.
You are probably the nicest guy in the world but you have posted some really strange things that bring your judgement into question in my humble opinion.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Thanks, you answered my question. However, I would NEVER make an invitation to someone to even be on an advisory board without a face to face relationship. Which simply continues to answer the question, would I have Timmy on my "board?" Others may do it differently, but I would never do that no matter how they came across in writing or on the phone.
Apparently, you're willing to do so, and that's OK with me. It's just not how I would do it.
My goodness. This is exasperating.
If you look through this thread, I have said numerous times something to the effect of, "based on what we know", knowing full well it's not possible in this internet-forum-world to truly make a final judgment.
And I did NOT say that I would bring someone into an advisory position without a face-to-face meeting. Did I? Maybe you've missed the entire point of this thread. It was mostly for fun and to see if we might be willing to expand our horizons. It was also to get a gauge on how people really felt about people like Timmy. Simple as that.
I was NOT a moratorium as to whether or not the circumstances on how we do a church hire. I have never, and would never, hire or place someone without a face-to-face meeting. Is that clear?
I know you were trying to show your admiration and confidence in some of Timmy's abilities and traits but you chose an inappropriate way of doing that.
For you to make this statement in the first place is only exceeded in its bizzareness by your inability to see that it is an incredible lack of judgement to say that you would put someone you have only met via phone or internet on their church advisory board. Not only that but a person who is an agnostic or atheist. If you don't think there is a spiritual component to your advisory board even when they only deal with financial or ethical matters I really don't know what to say to you.
MOW has pretty much stated my take on this in his posts on this thread that I have read.
I have a feeling Timmy would think it would be inappropriate for him to be on a church advisory board and will take no offence at this. It is only common sense.
As far as you wondering about my previous comment about your sermon prep you said in a thread that you used to study 20-30 hours per week preparing for a sermon but decided that the time was better spent with people or something like that and now you put notes together Sunday mornings before church and preach from that.
You are probably the nicest guy in the world but you have posted some really strange things that bring your judgement into question in my humble opinion.
I chose an inappropriate way......in your opinion.
And you opinion is based on inadequate information. When you first noticed this thread, you posted and admitted you didn't read past, I think, the first page, so you really don't know what has been discussed. You've formed an opinion with inappropriate information.
Secondly, I HAVE NOT said that I would place someone on a board who I have only met on the internet. For you to say that I would do that, and that it is "bizarre" is FLAT OUT WRONG and I don't appreciate the blanket statement when you clearly aren't equipped with accurate information. I just simply haven't said it. And any insinuations that I might were based on the fact that we're only going by what we know here in this setting. It was NOT a literal scenario.
If you'd like to take exception to the fact that I might consider placing an agnostic in an advisory position, I'm open to criticism on that. THAT was, indeed, the only point of the thread. You see, Timmy displays many Christ-like qualities that are often missing in many Christians and I wanted to make that point. I made it. You missed it. Now that you know, let me have it if you like. But please, at least know what you're talking about before ripping me. But if you want to criticize me for that, just remember that many churches often pay money to non-Christian lawyers for advisory help.
My postings are probably only "bizarre" or "strange" if you don't take the time to read what is actually being said. But it's ok. I've done it, in fact, I did it this morning in something MoW said. I goofed. But I admitted it and apologized.
Can you please consider here that you made a brash statement about me without all the facts? I hope so.
I know you were trying to show your admiration and confidence in some of Timmy's abilities and traits but you chose an inappropriate way of doing that.
For you to make this statement in the first place is only exceeded in its bizzareness by your inability to see that it is an incredible lack of judgement to say that you would put someone you have only met via phone or internet on their church advisory board. Not only that but a person who is an agnostic or atheist. If you don't think there is a spiritual component to your advisory board even when they only deal with financial or ethical matters I really don't know what to say to you.
MOW has pretty much stated my take on this in his posts on this thread that I have read.
I have a feeling Timmy would think it would be inappropriate for him to be on a church advisory board and will take no offence at this. It is only common sense.
As far as you wondering about my previous comment about your sermon prep you said in a thread that you used to study 20-30 hours per week preparing for a sermon but decided that the time was better spent with people or something like that and now you put notes together Sunday mornings before church and preach from that.
You are probably the nicest guy in the world but you have posted some really strange things that bring your judgement into question in my humble opinion.
...and one more thing. I have found a method that works well with my lifestyle for sermon preparation. I slightly mentioned that assemble my notes at 5am on Sunday mornings. You ridiculed that. Yet you have NO IDEA who I am, what I'm about, what I do throughout the week, how much time I spend reading my bible and in so doing, taking notes that might fit in to what I'm going to be talking about, or the ENDLESS HOURS our creative team spends assembling a Sunday service. If you think I flippantly get up on Sunday morning and say, "Hmmm....wonder what I could talk about today", you're just a million percent wrong.
If you look through this thread, I have said numerous times something to the effect of, "based on what we know", knowing full well it's not possible in this internet-forum-world to truly make a final judgment.
And I did NOT say that I would bring someone into an advisory position without a face-to-face meeting. Did I? Maybe you've missed the entire point of this thread. It was mostly for fun and to see if we might be willing to expand our horizons. It was also to get a gauge on how people really felt about people like Timmy. Simple as that.
I was NOT a moratorium as to whether or not the circumstances on how we do a church hire. I have never, and would never, hire or place someone without a face-to-face meeting. Is that clear?
Please don't be exasperated, we're only working through a possible scenario you posited.
You have every right to put people on your "board" any way you see fit. I simply mentioned how I would do it and that Timmy would not qualify for our board.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Please don't be exasperated, we're only working through a possible scenario you posited.
You have every right to put people on your "board" any way you see fit. I simply mentioned how I would do it and that Timmy would not qualify for our board.
Fair enough, and if he wouldn't qualify based on his "spiritual status", fine. That was the entire point of the thread. I was attempting to make the point that Timmy displays Christ-like character, at times, in a greater way than many I've worked with. It was just a hypothetical discussion.
I guess I'm exasperated because I've been told, several times, how I would do things when, in fact, I didn't say it. I was starting to feel like I was beating my head against the wall and then here comes CC1 calling me "bizarre" and "strange" because I would hire someone over the internet. Good grief, I never said that and it's completely beside the point of the thread.
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