The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 21

TheLegalist · #**201** 03-31-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Oh but his response was grand. Will you interact with it?

why should I see no resposne to anything I ever say as it is always ignored scriptural wise and people don't argue from the text but spit jargon and misused terms. FAITH IS A RIGHTEOUS DEED seems you got hosed on that and just decided to ignore.

pelathais · #**202** 03-31-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why did he not say that to me, then? Anyway, Spirit baptism is as involved as repentance. If we say we need to repent then that opens the concept up that the cross PROVIDES for us to obey and be saved. Salvation is not possible without obedience. But that obedience is made in faith that HIS ACT directly saves, and not our act of obedience. We act BECAUSE His action saves. not because our action saves. I think y'all are missing that distinction.

Before you can really go beyond the cross, you must first understand the cross. Everything that you do as a Christian will be reflected by your understanding (or misunderstanding) of the cross and the work that Jesus Christ did for us there. This work that was done by Jesus is something that no human being could have ever done for themselves.

See Galatians 2:20-21.

Even after Calvary, we find that Jesus Christ lives! And... we find that we ourselves are also alive. Therefore we must live our lives in a manner that does not "frustrate the grace of God."

Yes, we do "good works" and we are obedient to God's commands; but those "works" and that obedience isn't what gave us this life. It was the the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross that saved us. That is the source of our life. I don't obey God to "get saved." I obey God because I am saved.

Jeffrey · #**203** 03-31-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

depends on what is meant by JUSTIFIED.... in the since of justice done as in judge... YES! Was righteous FORCED on Abraham? No! God cimply judged his response "just" thus God executed judgment of his actions. Pretty simple! Thus

Gen 15:6 Abram believed20 the LORD, and the LORD21 considered his response of faith as proof of genuine loyalty NET (TL

r as righteous according to other version)

Who is saying righteousness is "forced?" Justification and reconciliation are simultaneous events to Paul. He uses them often together. Justification is how we are seen legally, reconciliation is how we are restored relationally. BOTH happen at the same time.

God didn't "judge his response." He saved Him. (Where do you get that?) His judgement isn't associated with this discussion. He reckoned to him righteousness, accounted to him righteousness. So in your view, God waits to execute judgement of our actions. Does this work with our disobedience (sin) as well? Am I only judged "just" when I'm sinless?

May sound simple to you, but your commentary here does not fit with the Pauline language at all.

Jeffrey · #**204** 03-31-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Before you can really go beyond the cross, you must first understand the cross. Everything that you do as a Christian will be reflected by your understanding (or misunderstanding) of the cross and the work that Jesus Christ did for us there. This work that was done by Jesus is something that no human being could have ever done for themselves.

See Galatians 2:20-21.

Even after Calvary, we find that Jesus Christ lives! And... we find that we ourselves are also alive. Therefore we must live our lives in a manner that does not "frustrate the grace of God."

Yes, we do "good works" and we are obedient to God's commands; but those "works" and that obedience isn't what gave us this life. It was the the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross that saved us. That is the source of our life. I don't obey God to "get saved." I obey God because I am saved.

SHONDO. Now THAT will make me want to experience glossolalia.

Jeffrey · #**205** 03-31-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

why should I see no resposne to anything I ever say as it is always ignored scriptural wise and people don't argue from the text but spit jargon and misused terms. FAITH IS A RIGHTEOUS DEED seems you got hosed on that and just decided to ignore.

By deed you mean work. Faith is not a work. Faith produces work. Faith is not a work. Faith is trusting in who Jesus says He is. Believing he is in control, powerful, glorious, etc...

Hosed? Ignored? What are you talking about?

*AQuietPlace* · #**206** 03-31-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Please show me where scripture baptism and speaking in tongues are required for salvation?

Blume, how was Abraham saved? Moses? Noah? Hint: Paul talks about this in Romans.

Rom: 4 Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

I've always found this passage fascinating and food for thought.

Jeffrey · #**207** 03-31-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

YEP! He had to be or he would not have been "just" before God! Was Abraham's response judged just by his obedience unto circumcision? Yes he was!

This is in direct contradiction of scripture which you herald as the standard here.

Rom 4

pelathais · #**208** 03-31-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

depends on what is meant by JUSTIFIED.... in the since of justice done as in judge... YES!

What I mean by "justified" is exactly what Paul says in Romans 4:1-4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Was righteous FORCED on Abraham? No!

You quoted my post and then added something like this? Clean your glasses Bro!

You're arguing with the voices in your head instead of discussing Romans 4 with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

God cimply judged his response "just" thus God executed judgment of his actions. Pretty simple! Thus

Gen 15:6 Abram believed20 the LORD, and the LORD21 considered his response of faith as proof of genuine loyalty NET (TL

r as righteous according to other version)

In this particular case Abraham's "action" was that he "believed God." That is exactly what we've all been saying all along.

Now, you are correct!

Jeffrey · #**209** 03-31-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Jeffery just sent me a text message saying that "yes, of course" repentance is a part of admitting that one is in the condition of the soul described in Job 9:20 and they (we!) must repent lest we end up in the condition of the souls described in Luke 16:15.

In any case, we are completely dependent upon Jesus Christ to actually save us.

* There's a "One Stepper" list that we all secretly subscribe to. We run all of our posts past Steve Epley. If he squawks we go ahead and post them on AFF.

*scratching head*

Jeffrey · #**210** 03-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.

I've always found this passage fascinating and food for thought.

So have I AQP. Rocked my world. What a relief to know God has my back. It's not about me. I just have to trust Him. And by trusting Him, I avoid sinning, which is a spiral toward unbelief (the focus of John).