The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I was amazed at the list you provided of all the Lutheran branches! WOW! It is quite similar to the UPC in some ways, isn't it.

Ok, this is my last post!!!!!

That's it, I just wanted to say that.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mfblume

For the record, bro., I did not mean any one was stupid when saying they were not getting any points I made.

Here is where I tried explaining it.
...from http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...postcount=1114
...from http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...postcount=1271
No one paid attention to that explanation I guess.
If anything, I was simply unclear in my writing. Blame me! But I said, as you can see, more than once that I did not imply you were stupid or dumb.

I changed my mind about what was posted here. When I play in the mud, my clothes get dirty.Adios!

[n david]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's a pretty good example of your passive/aggressive approach to most of your forum postings Mike. You jump in saying things like,

"None of the One Steppers could ever explain..." and

"They just have no answers for ..." and

"Everyone who doesn't see it my way has no real education and is schtoopid!"

Then, after having turned up the heat to a boiling a temperature, you immediately start to whine whenever someone responds back to you in kind.

"Oh boy! You must really have anger management issues!" exclaims Mike... right after he has scornfully denigrated everyone else.

You're the classic mouthy little kid in the playground. You try and pick a fight wherever you go and when someone stands up to you, you immediately start crying, "Teeeacher!"

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Right!

Oh wait, you're talking about mfblume and not someone else. Sorry, my mistake.

Carry on!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by n david

Right!

Oh wait, you're talking about mfblume and not someone else. Sorry, my mistake.

Carry on!

Funny.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Question for TL and Blume (and others) -- do you agree with this excerpt from the Augsburg Confession?

For it is false [I thus conclude, and am certain that it is a fiction, and not true] that we merit the remission of sins by our works.

False also is this, that men are accounted righteous before God because of the righteousness of reason [works and external piety].

False also is this that reason, by its own strength, is able to love God above all things, and to fulfil God's Law, namely, truly to fear God to be truly confident that God hears prayer, to be willing to obey God in death and other dispensations of God, not to covet what belongs to others, etc.; although reason can work civil works.

Are we capable, by our own will, of even loving God and wanting to obey Him?

I believe that ability to love God is offered to us to join with the ability we already have to love Him by choice. We can choose to accept that offer with our own reasoning and then God enjoins with us and empowers us to be able to love Him to the fullest.

It looks like the Lutherans here are saying even conscious decisions are impossible for us to make on our own in order to get so far away from salvation by works, that they believe predestination like the Calvinists. This leads to the Calvinistic and Lutheran belief that we can never really have victory over sin, either. I think their belief stems from a non-regenerate heart that has to excuse lack of victory in their lives over sin, so they conclude God predestines who will be saved, and one will not lose their salvation regardless of how much sin one commits. So I distance myself from any Lutheran and Calvinistic proposals. They have an agenda of concocting an excuse for lack of spiritual victory.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe that ability to love God is offered to us to join with the ability we already have to love Him by choice. We can choose to accept that offer with our own reasoning and then God enjoins with us and empowers us to be able to love Him to the fullest.

It looks like the Lutherans here are saying even conscious decisions are impossible for us to make on our own in order to get so far away from salvation by works, that they believe predestination like the Calvinists. This leads to the Calvinistic and Lutheran belief that we can never really have victory over sin, either. I think their belief stems from a non-regenerate heart that has to excuse lack of victory in their lives over sin, so they conclude God predestines who will be saved, and one will not lose their salvation regardless of how much sin one commits. So I distance myself from any Lutheran and Calvinistic proposals. They have an agenda of concocting an excuse for lack of spiritual victory.

Absolutely and Totaly agree! Mike think about it. The doctrine they teach truly is falling away from the realization of Grace! As Grace is the law of God placed on our hearts through the blood of Christ BY WHICH WE ACTUALLY OVERCOME SIN! Not simply positionally but OVERCOME by doing his will.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Absolutely and Totaly agree! Mike think about it. The doctrine they teach truly is falling away from the realization of Grace! As Grace is the law of God placed on our hearts through the blood of Christ BY WHICH WE ACTUALLY OVERCOME SIN! Not simply positionally but OVERCOME by doing his will.

Wow. Powerful thought! GRACE is DIVINE EMPOWERMENT! Talk about distorting grace by trying to understand it better! Hooboy!

[mfblume]

TL, ever hear of this interpretation of God's answer to Paul's prayer for deliverance from the thorn in his flesh? Our most recent thoughts on grace reminded me of it.

Paul was in a learning curve throughout Acts. When he prayed for God to deliver him from the thorn in his flesh, he was desiring God to do all the work. God in effect told him, "No, I have given you GRACE (divine empowerment) and you can overcome and drive that thorn away yourself in MY POWER."

I heard a minister mention that last year and it really grabbed me.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

TL, ever hear of this interpretation of God's answer to Paul's prayer for deliverance from the thorn in his flesh? Our most recent thoughts on grace reminded me of it.

Paul was in a learning curve throughout Acts. When he prayed for God to deliver him from the thorn in his flesh, he was desiring God to do all the work. God in effect told him, "No, I have given you GRACE (divine empowerment) and you can overcome and drive that thorn away yourself in MY POWER."

I heard a minister mention that last year and it really grabbed me.

I firmly believe this as this is the foundational model of my belief system. His Grace(empowerment to overcome) is sufficient. There view of grace does allow temptation beyond what we can bear. We can't stop sinning they say. Like we are some savage robots to the flesh that rape and pillage everything in sight. Then they(calvinists) say God makes us believe to be declared righteous.... yet somehow he drops the ball all the other times we are sinning and allows us to live in sin but yet WOW he gave us a little faith to believe once and here a little there a little. sheesh this a one of the great heresies at it highest and it's totaly infiltrated Christian thought. Whether your a calvinist or not it's tentacles are there in many belief systems.

They truly make the Grace of God non effect!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I firmly believe this as this is the foundational model of my belief system. His Grace(empowerment to overcome) is sufficient. There view of grace does allow temptation beyond what we can bear. We can't stop sinning they say. Like we are some savage robots to the flesh that rape and pillage everything in sight. Then they(calvinists) say God makes us believe to be declared righteous.... yet somehow he drops the ball all the other times we are sinning and allows us to live in sin but yet WOW he gave us a little faith to believe once and here a little there a little. sheesh this a one of the great heresies at it highest and it's totaly infiltrated Christian thought. Whether your a calvinist or not it's tentacles are there in many belief systems.

They truly make the Grace of God non effect!

HAHAHA. RIGHT!

They believe in grace to cause us to be saved, without so much as our choice, and with all that overcoming power over human will, as though we really had no will, they do not believe grace can empower us in victory over sin!