Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes NIV


Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel NKJV



3Let not yours be the [merely] external adorning with [elaborate] [b] interweaving and knotting of the hair, the wearing of jewelry, or changes of clothes; AMP







What is finre clothes?? Suits/ ties/fancy dresses??? If it doesn't mean to not adorn with clothes, then waht does it mean?

I'll tell ya' what it is. It's when you go these churches that wouldn't DARE wear rings, necklaces, etc., BUT have no problem w/ elaborate suits that cost at least $300-$500. They have no problem wearing flashy watches in the name of a "time-piece." Their women have no problem wearing these goofy looking high hair-do's [as Jezebel did], etc. ad nauseum. Yes, the inconsistency is absurd & I have noooo desire to fellowship such non-sense...finally we agree on something.





BTW NJ city is indeed the church.


Rev 21:9-10

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife .

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV


Notice he tell John he's gonna show him the bride, the lanbs wife then take him to a mountain showing him the city, new jerusalem.

Will their be sinners on the earth when the NJ city comes down??

Did you not read my earlier post??? Why did you tatally ignore my point about the bride being arrayed in pure white, in contrast to the whore of Babylon decked out in jewels??? BTW, are you just gonna' evade my point about God's historical dwelling places ON EARTH? Not very honest apologetics.

Besides, your "example" above still fails, since we're not at the end of the eschaton right now...as your example is. Your meshing time frames & pawning it off as relevant to the present....Equivocation Fallacy.

But, still waiting on you to fill out my blank. Do you believe the words of Paul in I Tim. 2, "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel.":____________? C'mon, pretty please just fill in ONE blank!?

Out of pocket for the rest of the day.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by rdp

Did you not read my earlier post??? Why did you tatally ignore my point about the bride being arrayed in pure white, in contrast to the whore of Babylon decked out in jewels??? BTW, are you just gonna' evade my point about God's historical dwelling places ON EARTH? Not very honest apologetics.

Besides, your "example" above still fails, since we're not at the end of the eschaton right now...as your example is. Your meshing time frames & pawning it off as relevant to the present....Equivocation Fallacy.

But, still waiting on you to fill out my blank. Do you believe the words of Paul in I Tim. 2, "not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel.":____________? C'mon, pretty please just fill in ONE blank!?

Out of pocket for the rest of the day.

it's funny, you act like your saying stuff I never thought of or read before. You point about the gold on the inside of the tabernacle is point to consider, but so is the outside was badger skin if I remember right, so much for fancy clothes we wear today.


Of course, I believe all of Paul words, proper understanding might be another thing though.

I know in Tim 2 it says costly apparel while in peter just mentions apparel, I missed your greek lesson on it, so how is adorning with close ok again? You mention 300-500 suits but clothes don't have to be expensive to be adoning? Would a 50 dollar red suit be OK?

For the record, My wife and I do not wear jewelry, well she does wear a bracelet that tells time, but I wear nothing. I'm just looking at this subject from all angles.


You didn't answer my question about if sinners will be outside the NJ city? Do you believe earth will be burnt up before the NJ city comes??

[Truthseeker]

Let me add a question that maybe Jeffery will help with?

Is costly apparel ever right?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

it's funny, you act like your saying stuff I never thought of or read before. You point about the gold on the inside of the tabernacle is point to consider, but so is the outside was badger skin if I remember right, so much for fancy clothes we wear today.


Of course, I believe all of Paul words, proper understanding might be another thing though.

I know in Tim 2 it says costly apparel while in peter just mentions apparel, I missed your greek lesson on it, so how is adorning with close ok again?

For the record, My wife and I do not wear jewelry, well she does wear a bracelet that tells time, but I wear nothing. I just looking at this subject from all angles.


You didn't answer my question about if sinners will be outside the NJ city? Do you believe earth will be burnt up before the NJ city comes??

People that use type/shadows to make literal applications to the nth degree are confounding. Most people believe the Temple spoke of how the Kingdom of God comes in servant clothes, the riches are to be discovered.... or that the beauty of the inside is in the Temple... But when someone uses a metaphorical type/shadow without biblical instruction to demand we wear clothes like badger skins, I can't help but chuckle. The only use of our bodies as the temple are from Paul who spoke against those who were giving their bodies over to sexual immorality --- he reminded them that they are the living, breathing, temples where God wants to live and that flagrant sin is not appropriate (of course he also used the "temple of God" analogy corporately in another setting, not individually).

Using the Temple of God analogies to talk about how we should be plain on the outside really is done with poor Biblical interpretation and is unfortunate.

And I should remind you that the Kingdom of God is no longer badger skins, but a bright-shining city set upon a hill (just to update the word-picture), the Kingdom of God is the New Jerusalem coming down from above, a shining city whose builder and maker is God. Like our redemptions, that city is both now and later.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Let me add a question that maybe Jeffery will help with?

Is costly apparel ever right?

It's all about heart issues.

In Corinth, there was blatant flaunting of social statuses, women who flaunted false-beauty, making their lower-class brothers/sisters feel inferior. Corinth had this (of many) heart issues.

Paul corrected it, teaching what true beauty is and where it comes from, and where it doesn't come from. The specific instruction was for this specific situation, the principle is timeless.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

It's all about heart issues.

In Corinth, there was blatant flaunting of social statuses, women who flaunted false-beauty, making their lower-class brothers/sisters feel inferior. Corinth had this (of many) heart issues.

Paul corrected it, teaching what true beauty is and where it comes from, and where it doesn't come from. The specific instruction was for this specific situation, the principle is timeless.

How do wre come that conclusion? about social status flaunting.


So costly apparel is ok as long as heart is right?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

How do wre come that conclusion? about social status flaunting.


So costly apparel is ok as long as heart is right?

More than we could type right here. But additional research about the situation in that city, those very familiar with this time/culture/place that used that to help exegete the Text.... all comes from there. It wasn't only Corinth that had a probably in this area either... But Paul dealt with it multiple times in Corinth (including the second half of 1 Corinthians 11, where they separated at the Lord's Supper -- meeting early to have a banquet style meal and giving leftovers, bread and water to the poor in the congregation).

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

More than we could type right here. But additional research about the situation in that city, those very familiar with this time/culture/place that used that to help exegete the Text.... all comes from there. It wasn't only Corinth that had a probably in this area either... But Paul dealt with it multiple times in Corinth (including the second half of 1 Corinthians 11, where they separated at the Lord's Supper -- meeting early to have a banquet style meal and giving leftovers, bread and water to the poor in the congregation).

Gotcha

back to the costly apparel question, is it ok if heart is right?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

How do wre come that conclusion? about social status flaunting.


So costly apparel is ok as long as heart is right?

Your second question -- what is "costly apparel?" Should we put a dollar sign on it? A color stipulation? Adjust it for certain social settings? (ie, worship, dinner party, etc)

I think sometimes we ask the wrong question and expect a right answer.

The Text here is not "when is costly apparel" okay. We have to determine what this meant to the original audience first.

I obviously have my own personal preferences -- I'm not a flashy person, nor is my wife. Neither are we covered in ashes and dust. My wife moderately wears jewelry (finer jewelry if we are going somewhere fine), I wear a single wedding band. I don't wake up every day in axiety over this question. I trust the Lord, listen to the Spirit in my life and continue to remember who I am is not determined by what I have or don't have, but about who I am in Him.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Your second question -- what is "costly apparel?" Should we put a dollar sign on it? A color stipulation? Adjust it for certain social settings? (ie, worship, dinner party, etc)

I think sometimes we ask the wrong question and expect a right answer.

Ok how about in definition of what Paul would have meant when he said costly apparel??

What I'm getting at that if If 1 tim 2 is not against jewelry as many say then it's not against costly apparel as well. If costly apparel is wrong at anytime then should the other items listed be as well?

Hope I'm making sense.