Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movement

[vrblackwell]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

It always amazes me that this is how some, who are apparently far-removed from the situation, view those who are recipients of charity. You've bought the lie and drank the kool-aid that poverty is only a surface-level epidemuc, that all homeless people are drunks (because those are the obvious ones you see in public), that all families needing assistance are lazy bums, etc.... Please, study poverty. I urge. I plead with you. Take a social science class on it. I really think you'll at least reconsider your perspectives.



Matthew 25:31-46
It's certainly not a proof-text for how a government should work, but most definitely an implied command that we can harmonize with many of his other teachings, as well as the attitude of GOD in the OT stories.

Roll up your sleeves and get involved in the slums of your neighborhoods. Your perspective of lazy, unproductive bums will probably change and your heart will break for the things that break God's heart.

You have no idea who I am or what I know. My wife an I volunteer monthly at Convoy of Hope as well a soup kitchens. I give money monthly to organizations that feed and cloth the homeless. Most of them are there because of poor choices they have made in life. I have tried to help some get jobs and come out of those situations and they all make excuses and refuse the help.

IF you will notice in my post I said we should help the elderly, handicapped and THOSE WHO ARE DOWN ON THERE LUCK AND GOING THROUGH HARD TIMES. However, we should not be supporting people on a continual basis who sit in there home provided by the government, watching cable tv.


"I urge. I plead with you. Take a social science class on it. I really think you'll at least reconsider your perspectives."

As far as the above, no thank you. I don't need some bleeding heart liberal at a college lecturing me on the homeless. As I mentioned above I've been on the front lines enough to know what goes on.

I understand there are people who really do need help and we should give them that help.

[vrblackwell]

Originally Posted by coadie

Read some history. Then tell us if we are a democracy.

What's the difference? According to my Merriam-Webster:

•Democracy — Government by the people; government in which the supreme power is retained by the people and exercised either directly (Ablsolute, or pure), or indirectly (representative).

•Republic — A state in which the sovereign power resides in a certain body of the people (the electorate), and is exercised by representatives elected by, and responsible to, them.
Articles I and II of the Constitution are very explicit: We choose representatives and they make the rules that we live by until its time to choose again. Thank God we don't have to run down to the townhall, the statehouse, or the nation's capitol to decide every question.

We are a republic not a democracy. A republic is governed by established laws a democracy is governed by a majority.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

I define using force to take, without my consent, my property as theft -- yes. I refuse to allow other people to frame the world through their lenses so that they can then abuse others.

Consent - to give assent or approval. From Merriam Webster.

I don't need a law degree to tell me what consent is. We all know what theft is and what consent is. Such is a lawyer (except for ILG - she's a lawyer, right? ) -- that makes our language convoluted, loopholed, and obfuscated as to be able to warp the language.

Want it more simple? If I say you can't have it and you take it anyway -- it is theft.

- very black and white. Which usually stands out in a world of grey.

Black and white? Legal issues? (And yes, "stealing" is a legal issue).

Implied consent, expressed consent, etc...

I'd encourage you not to go around saying people are "stealing" from you. It makes for good rhetoric, but it's very foolish if you are trying to go beyond rhetoric.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

Can you prove that?

I am sure you do not realize when a judge in California ruled against 7 million voters that expressed their desires on gay marriage, we don't have the government you think we have.

Can I prove what?

The case is being appealed, which is how this system works. Sometimes we also live with things that we don't agree with, another byproduct of an imperfect system, but the best one around. Can you point to a better one?

Regarding the legal issues surrounding Prop 8, that's a completely separate conversation.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by ILG

See, here's the thing. Our country is in a mess......but we do have some great processes in place.

Indeed, what should our Utopia look like? I do wonder that as I listen to some ranting I sometimes watch on youtube.

I agree.

Talk Radio and Cable Talking heads are great at articulating ideals and drawing out critiques. People long to hear solutions that work for all of America.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

Nah.. I like it here... born here... Texas is hot, though...

I used to participate when I thought it made a difference. It doesn't; so I won't participate. What's that saying? If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

As Etienne de la Boetie states in The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude: "Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." I have began pulling my support from the tyrant.

How's that working out for you?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

I do not see that law as legitimate. Legislation does not make something law -- merely the appearance of it which people either choose to follow... or not...

Admittedly, I realize that there are consequences to thumbing my nose at the tyrant. The question is whether there should be consequences.

What is a law without any consequences?

Which law don't you see as legitimate? Taxation in general?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

It is...

I'm still working on that... I have an idea I'm pursuing at this point but, in the end, true liberty and freedom won't be seen in my lifetime... perhaps not even my kids lifetime... but I have began teaching my kids that it can be found and to be patient.

And, for the record, I do not believe in violence as a solution for anything. Before people start lumping me into the wacko box...

Do you think perspective counts for anything? Can you think of a more free nation in the known world?

Doesn't freedom come with it a degree of surrender to maintain freedom? Are you an anarchist?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

I don't think he has one now...

Your opinion and I can't change that. But he certainly does. He has both a physical voice and an voting voice. He can print and publish what he'd like. He can run for office. He can rally together for his cause. He can lobby representatives toward his cause. He can reject a candidate at election time. Plenty of ways to "speak out."

[coadie]

Originally Posted by vrblackwell

We are a republic not a democracy. A republic is governed by established laws a democracy is governed by a majority.

http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/gore_tax.html

The Gore Tax.

Universal Service Fund
The "Gore Tax," which is now being collected (upon directive of the FCC) by telephone companies, began as a 5% fee (tax) on all interstate long-distance charges, which will, as AT&T is explaining to its customers, "give schools and libraries access to advanced services like the Internet."

The FCC levied this tax. It was done illegally.