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Originally Posted by notofworks
There was no snake reference so there's no need to get touchy in the middle of our friendly conversation about The Cross.
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FTR, I do not slither. I don't know how to slither. I've never slithered. So don't use that metaphor associated with me. Slithering calls to mind the mannerisms of a snake.
I will use the word "squirm" and plead with you to quit it and start answering some questions...unless of course you are adamant in your (two boards nailed together) "cross alone" doctrine. If you are THAT adamant, I will concede nothing but will just shake my head in amazement and walk away to wonder at one of the several marvels that post here on an "Apostolic" forum.
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Yes, the burial and resurrection were events that happened AFTER the cross. You can't possibly deny that.
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It is plain from the writings in the N.T. that the Cross of Jesus is more than two planks nailed together as in the idea of "cross alone." The cross of Jesus is the Gospel. Too many references in the NT to miss the obvious.
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Furthermore, you make a completely erroneous statement when you say, "According to Paul, the cross is the gospel which he preached and defined in I Cor. 15:1-4." He didn't say that.
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I am very near concluding that you are not a student of the Word of God. YES, he did say that!
I'll quote it for you in his own words to prove the obvious...which has no need of proving.
1 Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
See if you can get the connection from this 18th verse above:
1. Preaching
2. Cross
3. Saved
4. Power of God
See any connection with the gospel in these words?
To begin with we see that the power to save is resident in the PREACHING of the cross...NOT THE CROSS ALONE.
Also, in the "duh" category: The cross of Jesus is inextricably the gospel which cannot be divided and set apart from the gospel. It becomes the gospel (the good news) when it is preached. Also, in the "duh" category, it is well known that both Luther and Calvin acknowledged the obvious which you seem unwilling to do.
It is becoming more and more plain that you are advocating for "another" gospel that does not involve the burial and resurrection of Jesus. The DEATH of Jesus alone, carries no good news. That seems to be what you are contending for. If so, that indeed is ANOTHER gospel. Luther and Calvin would be gravely disappointed. At least they believed in MIXING FAITH alone with the gospel. But of course, that would be adding to the cross ALONE theory wouldn't it?
So, let's see what the preaching of the (cross) Gospel of Jesus Christ involves:
1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
What might a normal level-headed student of the Word deduce from the writing in the first verse here?
a. Paul preached the gospel. (1st on the to do list)
b. The Corinthians received the gospel. (2nd on the to do list)
c. They STAND in the gospel. (3rd on the to do list)
Right of the bat we have dispensed with the foolish notion of "cross alone" theory.
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
"By which also ye are saved...?"
Say it ain't so Joe!
Preaching of the gospel?
Lest we need to be reminded, Paul had earlier said that the preaching of the CROSS was SAVING power, only 14 chapters earlier. But, alas, alas, he adds to the to do list connected to the two boards nailed together "...IF YOU KEEP IN MEMORY..."
The "to do" list is growing as we add to the cross alone...which is no longer "ALONE."
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Paul seems to be unable to give it up. He is now saying that a part of the gospel is the death of Jesus.
4 And that he was buried,
Now, he incorporates the burial of Jesus with the work of the cross as integral to the cross. After all, every dead body must be buried lest it stinks. No good news or a gospel that involves a dead rotting corpse unburied lest what you preach becomes a noisome abomination. "Cross only" that you advocate equates to "death only," even less...just two boards nailed together without the death.
and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Now here we are receiving the "good news," which is to say the "gospel," the preaching of the cross.
Anyone with at least one level brain cell can quickly deduce that...
a death without a burial is NOTHING.
a burial without a resurrection is NOTHING.
A RESURRECTION from the grave after the deathand burial is THE GOOD NEWS...i.e., THE GOSPEL.
So, YES, Paul DID say it.
Only you deny it.
This is truly sad.
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