Something interesting about gays.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Luke

Yes when I said correct I was agreeing with you statement of freedom from sinning and freedom from desire of sin.

Here are three illustrations that show that we can be tempted without having a carnal fallen nature:
1. Adam and Eve were created without a fallen sinful nature yet were tempted and fell.

2. Lucifer was created without a fallen nature and he fell along with a third of the angels.

Do you have scripture for either of these assertions? Chapter and verse, please.

3. Jesus was born without a fallen nature and yet He also was tempted but He did not sin.

These examples show beyond a doubt that one does not require a fallen nature unordered to be tempted or even unordered to fall to temptation. To say that Jesus had to desire sin unordered to be tempted to sin is to say that when satan offered Him all the Kingdoms of the world if Jesus would simply now down and worship satan is to therein,e Jesus was tempted with satanic worship for gain He desired to sin in this way!!!! To say that is crazy! From the temptations of Jesus alone we see that that temptation without the desire to sin is possible.

What about Job when his wife said curse God and die. Do you actually think Job desired to curse God?

The examples could go on on but these should suffice.

You are confusing someone "testing" another person (which is the sense in which Satan tested Jesus and Job's wife tested him) and a person being enticed and drawn away by their OWN lusts (desires). They are two completely different concepts. I can set up a trap and "test" my husband's fidelity based on my own doubt of his faithfulness; however, he will only be TEMPTED by that option if he finds the option appealing. Otherwise, my "tempting" of him is not a temptation at all to HIM.

Are you substituting "fallen nature" for "human nature?"

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Wow, that gave me a headache having to read that.

But, you reminded me of a funny conversation I had with my husband. I said, "I don't want to do things wrong - ever. I always want to be good." His reply, "I want to be bad, but God won't let me."

LOL!!! That's great!

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I can agree with Jesus being born without a fallen nature as he was God manifest in flesh.

But, how do you know that Adam, Even and Satan were created without a fallen nature? Genesis 1:31 says God beheld everything He made and called it good, couldn't the good also mean within his creative plan? If they had a choice between obedience and disobedience, that would seem they had a fallen nature present that they must chose between.

And Genesis 3:6 says, "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat...."

The ideas of being wise and eating a fruit that was "pleasant to the eyes" and "good for food" were appealing to Eve; otherwise the temptation wouldn't have worked at all. The scripture could have read, "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she turned her back on the tree and walked away...." At that point, even though she had inwardly felt and acknowledged a desire for the fruit, she would have walked away sinless. This is where I'm disagreeing with Luke. He believes that temptation does not equate "desire." I do agree with you that Satan deceived Eve.