Originally Posted by luke
i know that we have discussed this but nowhere in scripture does it ever even allude to the concept that jesus was not god. In fact the bible specificly calls jesus god mutiple times. To say that jesus was anything less than god does not make biblical sense imo.
Hey bro, you are asking the same questions that we discussed over there. I answered them all...Jesus was a man and God(the father) was in him in the form of the Holy Ghost(luke 4:1)
lets try this one: If you were born of a virgin by the power of God, and you had the power of God residing in you in the fullness that Jesus had(witnessing the miracles,signs and wonders that Jesus did), and I saw you die to fulfill o.t. Scriptures and resurrect in a glorified body claiming "all power is given unto me in heaven and earth", you would be my God. I would not have to ask you,,,,show me God?. Before he died, Phillip said."show me(us) the Father(God). They wanted to see God. They did not know that the Father was right there in front of them...(inside of Jesus)....they did not realize he would be their God till after the resurrection. ( they just saw him as the messiah, prophet, son of God,) ...that is when Thomas first fell down and said..."my Lord and my God"...after the resurrection.
I believe Jesus is God. He was not born a baby/god. He was a man. God is not a man. His "destiny" was to become "our" God. He passed the test(with the help of the Holy Ghost inside him). He is our God.
How can you distinguish between when it is jesus the man and when god the father speaks if the scripture does specify it? In other words the times that i would point to as jesus claiming to be god you would say that no this was god the father speaking instead of jesus but how do you come to this point unless it is to fit your belief? Also your definition of simply and my definiton of simply are two verey different things.
When the father speaks, it is written in blue letters...lol,
no really, when Jesus said "before Abraham was, I AM".....that was the Father.
When Jesus said..."I thirst"...that was Jesus.
You are saying that still yet jesus is not god but rather the place where god resides.
No Luke, God is "inside" him. As big as God is, is now how big Jesus is.(omnipresent)
Yes you are denying the diety of jesus and you would have to if you believe that he was simply man while on earth unles you agree with mormons who believe that man can become god. If jesus ever was not god then he never can become god. Unless you are willing to answer the question as to how a human becomes god?
Simple, his body is literally destroyed by his fellow humans, his soul and spirit go back to God and God resurrects him from the dead, gives him a glorified body and chooses to dwell in him in His fullness.
You must really think that is impossible to God(what i just described)
thats why you try the mormon ploy. (the readers are smarter than you think)
he physicaly raised from the dead in the same body he had before his crucifixion just as we will. The only difference between his body before and after the ressurection being that now he has a glorified body as we will also have. It is ineresting to note that the old testament prophesied that when the jews behold jesus again his they will ask where he recieved the scars upon him which seems to imply that he still bears the marks of his crucifixion therewfore how can you say that his body was shredded or in any way doen away with? Not knowing what happened to his spirit is a problem because to say that he was simply man like us then he died and is now the place where god resides brings uo two major problems that you never answered:
It is only a problem to those that believe in more than one divine being...it would bug me too.
1: In heaven there will be two of jesus. One that is the place where all of god resides. The other will be the man resurected at the end along with the rest of us.
2: If you reject the first veiw then you are left with the belief that god destroyed the only perfect man who has ever lived entirerly except for his bodily shell.
Thats the part that I have no idea...what happens to the soul and spirit. Jesus like us, had both...why dont you tell me what happened to Jesus' soul and human spirit?... I really would like to know....that part of ingredients of the human being is left out for conjecture. (maybe his soul and human spirit are essentially part of his new body and all parts are omnipresent), ( maybe our soul and spirit will just get a new body) but we wont be God or omnipresent.
That part is only my speculation.
Which do you hold to?
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