Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #11  
Old 06-04-2018, 12:31 PM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,280
Re: Most complex explanation of the Godhead ever!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
No they don't.

I'm fairly new to Michael's ideas (but as I stated in a previous post, these ideas were present in the earliest Oneness movement), but this is how I understand what they're saying. You may already understand their views and are just asking this question rhetorically in your critique of their view.

Summary
-The Omnipresent Spirit who became the Son via the Word-Image is eternal.
-The Word-Image, the visible form or celestial body of the omnipresent Spirit, is not eternal but had a beginning. The Word-Image was the first born of all creation; that is, God expressed himself in this visible form as his first act of creation and from this visible form created the heavens and the earth.
-God appeared in this visible form at all times to the Angels and at times to human beings as the Angel of the Lord.
-The human Son of God is not eternal but had a beginning at his conception when the Word-Image became man.

[I]I respectfully disagree with the above comments, your saying that God created for himself an image and that created image formed the worlds. is that the understanding of your comment?
[/I]

Why posit that God created from a visible form? You had, I believe, asserted that the Son as the Image of God only had reference to the Man (which is how I have generally believed in the past). But Col 1.15-18 especially and also Heb 1.2-3 make it difficult to maintain this when they explicitly say that the Image was the agent of creation.

If you look at the subject of the verses you mention, the subject is the man Christ Jesus not an image in the heavens. all of the verses in Heb 1 refers to the Man not a spirit.
if you take a look at the Greek word for "by" in the later part of Heb1:2 the word your translation has as "through" can also mean on account of, and because of. it is my opinion that the most accurate meaning of "by" would be one of the other definitions "on account, of because of" if this were the case we could keep the subject and the context intact


Col 1.15-18: "15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

also in Col the subject is the man Jesus. the man Jesus is the image. He "the man Jesus" who is being spoken of not preincarnation.

Heb 1.2-3a: "2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person. . . "

As stated elsewhere, when the writer of Hebrews says the Son created, he is speaking proleptically of the Son, that is, the One who was "the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person" and who created later became the Son.)

Again Heb is referring to the Messiah< Jesus the man is the brightness of his glory.

I have heard people try to explain these verses (and John 1.1-3) as "Well, as God of course he was the creator, but the Image only refers to when he became man." But these verses distinguish God from His Image while stating that the Image was the agent of creation.

The Image of God is said to be the Word in order to harmonize these verses with John 1.1-3 where the Word is distinguished from God and is the agent of creation.

The Word and Image are two ways of speaking of one reality: the expression or self-revelation of God. The Image in particular emphasizes the visible nature of this expression.

God and his Word or Image are not two distinct divine persons. Pre-incarnation, the Word-Image is not in any kind of personal relationship with God. He is simply the visible form of the omnipresent Spirit.

Post-incarnation, the Son, the Word-Image incarnate, is described as being in personal relationship with God (talking to each other, loving each other, the Son receiving information from the Father, etc.) and that's where all the real exegetical fun begins in trying to make sense of that. :-)
..
Reply With Quote
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Explanation of Changes in UPC Harmony Fellowship Hall 73 06-01-2018 08:34 PM
A complex question.... Timmy Fellowship Hall 35 09-12-2014 09:34 PM
Persecution complex... jfrog Fellowship Hall 30 03-06-2010 05:27 PM
I now have a Rudolph Complex Rhymis Fellowship Hall 11 10-08-2007 10:56 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.