What dies at death and wehat is resurrected?

[mfblume]

This topic deserves its own thread.

Esaias wrote:

Let's clarify. That which is resurrected to live again is that which had previously died. In order for the PERSON to resurrect, the PERSON must be dead and then brought back to life. If the body is the only thing that dies, then the body - not the whole person - is the only thing that resurrects.

That is actually what I believe. The body is the only thing that dies when that which is known as death occurs. I will consider your thoughts as I read through them, as aI am writing as I read each part you have presented..

If one says "the soul was dead in sins" then the soul resurrected at conversion. Which means the person is resurrected twice? Two resurrections for the saint? Yet the Bible speaks of the saint resurrecting on a particular day, a single event in which the PERSON resurrects.

Well, the soul, not the body, was indeed in a state of death called trespasses and sins.

Ephesians 2:1.. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

That verse follows Paul's example of Christ's experience in which he both was raised from the dead and then seated in heavenly places. Jesus experienced two things noted in chapter 1.

Ephesians 1:20.. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Paul said that the power that God used to do this with Christ is toward us. In other words, we experience the same things.

Ephesians 1:19.. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

The power God used to raise and enthrone Christ is toward us. That means, as 2:1 said, we are quickened together with Him -- raised from the dead.

And, secondly, we are seated with Him as well.

Ephesians 2:6.. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

It is considered by God to be a raising and seating with Christ as much as Christ was raised and seated.

For that reason, Paul said that we need to come before God with the understanding that we are alive from the dead. Union to Christ's death and resurrection is very real, and we must consider it so.

Romans 6:9-11.. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. ..(10).. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. ..(11).. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And that is what this next verse says as well:

Romans 6:6.. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Conversion and regeneration being likened to a resurrection is just that - LIKE an actual resurrection.

But what do we mean LIKE a resurrection? Perhaps we are so used to thinking of the body resurrecting that we think the soul and spirit is not resurrected because we can only imagine a physical thing.

I believe our spirits were actually dead in sin. Dormant spirits. And they were made alive at new birth.

A person who is "dead in sins" is not literally ontologically DEAD. They are under sentence of death, "dead man walking" in other words.

I think the spirit is dead. And the only part born again is the spirit.

The sinner - who is dead in sins - must die in baptism, die to sin. Yet the person has been alive before and during and after all these deaths.

Now that I think of it, your understanding of spirit is different than mine, so my explanation of the spirit being dead and made alive may mean something to you that I never heard of.

Jude spoke of people being TWICE DEAD. I think that refers to dead spirits made alive at new birth only to become dead again.

Thus it can be seen that such "quickenings" are not the type of quickening Paul speaks about in 1 Cor 15. They are called quickening, being made alive again, etc by way of close analogy. A man can kill you at golf, but there's no need to call the funeral parlour yet, nor will he be wanted for homicide.

Resurrection involves the PERSON.

Paul was speaking focusing about bodies in 1 Cor 15, though.

And a living person is a union of spirit and flesh, producing a living soul. When spirit and flesh separate, the person dies. When spirit is REunited with flesh, the person lives again, or is "resurrected".

Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1 Corinthians:15:18

If the resurrection ONLY involves the body, then only Christ's body was raised. If then "there is no resurrection", that simply means there is no resurrection of the body. The saints would just be in heaven with their soul-bodies or whatever is imagined the dead have.

Right. And that is not victory over death.

But Paul says if Christ isn't raised, and there is no resurrection, then those Christians who have died are DONE, gone, perished. They are not floating in heaven, etc. The continuation beyond this mortal life is all dependent upon RESURRECTION. Without resurrection, YOU WON'T BE GOING ANYWHERE. So clearly resurrection is not limited to the body itself. Otherwise Paul had no argument.

If I am right and the soul and spirit do not die upon death of the body, but leave the body to be with the Lord, it would only be for the sake of resurrection of the body. If there is no point to resurrect our bodies, then there is no point of continuing on in heaven. We were not created to live and die to go to heaven. Adam was created to rule this world immortally. That purpose has never changed. God restores us to the PLAN A of what we read in Genesis 1 for man. Rule the world immortally. And this makes the picture of the resurrection make perfectly good sense. If there is no resurrection, then Plan A will never come to pass, so let man perish. But because Plan A is not abandoned, then resurrection is necessary because we only leave bodies in spirit and soul to go to heaven in order to await the resurrection and recommence with Plan A. There would be no purpose to die and go to heaven apart from bodies if we were never going to get those bodes again later.

The aspect of ruling this world forever is therefore not considered by those who feel there is no physical resurrection and those like yourselves who feel spirit and soul dies at death along with the body.

Hmmm.... Something to consider!