For those that left the UPC...

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts opens up the beginning of the New Testament church - a phenomenal event. Acts 2:21 speaks to me of simply "acknowledging" and "understanding" who Jesus Christ was, what He came to do and why I need Him in my life.

Do you believe that we simply need to acknowledge or understand who Jesus Christ was, what he came to do, and why we need him in our lives to be saved, then?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Acts 22:16, IMO, is saying the same thing. To turn that into introducing the idea that it is talking about a baptismal wording for the person being baptized is bad interpretation, IMO.

No, it's not that the person being baptized has to word anything a certain way. That is not what I said. By their action of baptism, which acknowledges the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, and their faith in Jesus and desire to follow him and walk in newness of life are how they "call on the name of the Lord." Not in word, in deed. Our minds get so wrapped around a certain formula that you automatically thought by what I said that the convert should say specific words. But that isn't what I said.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Why? Because Acts 22 is Saul/Paul speaking here. We understand his actions in Acts 8:3 because of his pedigree (Philippians 3:4-6).

I still don't quite understand why you put this part in. What do Saul of Tarsus's actions or Paul's pedigree have to do with baptism?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

In Hebrew, if you have a plural noun followed by a singular verb, the noun must also be singular.

Wow, where did you learn ancient Hebrew?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, this is what Saul/Paul knows:

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God/Elohim (plural noun) created/bara (singular verb) the heavens and the earth.

That makes God singular and the only creator. We will never find out, at any other time, that anyone created anything but God alone.

Yes, we all know that. And more Trinitarians know that than some OPs could ever imagine.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That makes God singular and the only creator. We will never find out, at any other time, that anyone created anything but God alone.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3)

Yes, and Trinitarians believe this too.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The writer is identifying God, who created all things, as Jesus Christ himself!

No one has denied this, and this is no huge revelation to most Christians today. Saul of Tarsus didn't have a gospel of John to read, so these verses weren't part of his revelation on the Damascus Road.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;." I John 1:1

Saul of Tarsus hadn't read 1 John either, I'm guessing. (TIC)

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

They heard Him speak, saw Him with their own eyes and handled him with their own hands - the WORD of life - God himself - Jesus Christ!

Again, Trinitarians believe this too.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

To overlook the glory of this revelation and say that it's okay to baptize in the FS&HG is to not recognize the powerful, wonderful and majestic truth of who God is and what He has done.

Oh, somewhere during all that we seem to have gotten off topic and a few things misunderstood. The 'glory of this revelation' that there is one God is a separate matter from the formula used at baptism. I wasn't arguing for baptism in the titles. We were simply discussing Acts 22 and exactly what it meant.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

This is what Saul experienced on the road to Damascus and he never looked back! Glory to God!!!!! He perfectly understood what Ananias was instructing him to do - Call on His name, believe in His name - God Almighty - God manifested in the flesh - Jesus Christ.

Matthew 28:19 are very powerful words and a revelation of Jesus Christ. It is not a baptismal formula. Never has been, never will be.

Uh, what did this have to do with baptism?
Oh, yeah, you were pointing out that John 1 and 1 John 1 gave Saul of Tarsus a revelation of who Jesus was or something. (If you had left it at the fact that Saul of Tarsus asked "who art thou, Lord?" and Jesus had responded "I am Jesus...", that would have better proven your point, at least if your point really was that Paul realized that Jesus was God come in flesh and his baptism signified that... although that still doesn't prove or disprove any formula.)

And you are right, Saul of Tarsus, now Paul, DID call on Jesus at his baptism. Not the preacher.

Matthew 28:19 is one verse in an entire Bible full of verses. Just like Acts 2:38, Acts 10:44, and so forth. None necessarily present a baptismal formula. Baptism is "the answer of a good conscience toward God" (1 Pet 3:21), not the words someone utters over you.