Hate Of Reformed Theology - Page 10

Jermyn Davidson · #91 01-28-2011, 04:52 PM

Our Salvation is all His Idea.
Our damnation is all our idea.

Socialite · #92 01-28-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Felix was allowed the opportunity to hear the Gospel first hand from the Apostle Paul, and yet he was only, "... almost persuaded...."

Was Felix's status as, "almost persuaded" a result of God's failure to draw Him or Felix's failure to believe?

Was Felix's failure to believe a result of Paul's inability to minister effectively or a result of Felix's choice to reject God for something a bit more convenient?

Good questions. I don't know.

Perhaps Felix "got it" in the head, but his heart was never pierced or drawn. He was persuaded with words that made some sense?

I don't know, nor will I try to read my ideas into that story. I can only speculate.

Again, Jermyn, I've never said we didn't have a choice. Not sure we keep going down the road of "no choice." It's not a major character in the Story though

Socialite · #93 01-28-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Our Salvation is all His Idea.
Our damnation is all our idea.

Irrelevant.

We are all damned. He will one day send those who are not His sheep into the ultimate place of death. I don't pretend to understand that fully. Salvation is truly all his idea. Damnation is not his idea, it's the consequence of his character: Good, Right, Perfect, Holy, Just, etc...

He atoned and became the "way in" for those who are His.

pelathais · #94 01-28-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Our Salvation is all His Idea.
Our damnation is all our idea.

That's rather nice, and pithy too. But I think it only works out that way in this life alone unless you're U.R. like crackerjack.

Somebody put the Lake of Fire together, "prepared for the devil and his angels" and those "on the left hand" at the Judgement.

Jermyn Davidson · #95 01-28-2011, 05:02 PM

It's not a major part. My points are made for the benefit of those who may disagree and would like to take me to task. If I need to be corrected, so be it.

So I tried to respond to, "it's not a major part".

His Grace is the only part, in the way I view salvation.

Choice is an inherrent part or component of Grace.

Without choice, there can not be Grace.

Jermyn Davidson · #96 01-28-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's rather nice, and pithy too. But I think it only works out that way in this life alone unless you're U.R. like crackerjack.

Somebody put the Lake of Fire together, "prepared for the devil and his angels" and those "on the left hand" at the Judgement.

Hey thanks Pel! I am glad you liked it!

God put the Lake of Fire together.

Still God did not predetermine humans for eternal damnation.

mizpeh · #97 01-28-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Irrelevant.

We are all damned. He will one day send those who are not His sheep into the ultimate place of death. I don't pretend to understand that fully. Salvation is truly all his idea. Damnation is not his idea, it's the consequence of his character: Good, Right, Perfect, Holy, Just, etc...

He atoned and became the "way in" for those who are His.

We are not born damned.

Socialite · #98 01-28-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Choice is an inherrent part or component of Grace.

Without choice, there can not be Grace.

I don't find this statement to have scriptural support. In fact, I have a hard time seeing a relationship. Grace is God's work and offer to and for us. Choice is only related as Grace is shown to us, and our ability to respond (which is Grace in itself). Eph 2 even says that the ability to accept the offer, and believe, is a gift of God in itself.

Jermyn Davidson · #99 01-28-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Irrelevant.

We are all damned. He will one day send those who are not His sheep into the ultimate place of death. I don't pretend to understand that fully. Salvation is truly all his idea. Damnation is not his idea, it's the consequence of his character: Good, Right, Perfect, Holy, Just, etc...

He atoned and became the "way in" for those who are His.

In the context that damnation is not His Will.

Yes, He knows whose are His.
Yes, He gives us the power to make choices.
Yes, He knows what choices we will make before we make them.
No, He will not send those who are not His Sheep to eternal damnation.

If a person ends up there, it will be as a consequence to their rejection of the Grace of God.

The damnation of the wicked is not a consequence of God's Character, it's a consequence of their wickedness.

Socialite · #**100** 01-28-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We are not born damned.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Creation, the human race, all that is above and all that is below, still suffers from the Fall.

Would love to hear your take. I do think views of Grace vary depending on how broken (read: depraved) we see ourselves in the Story.