Hate Of Reformed Theology

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Irrelevant.

We are all damned. He will one day send those who are not His sheep into the ultimate place of death. I don't pretend to understand that fully. Salvation is truly all his idea. Damnation is not his idea, it's the consequence of his character: Good, Right, Perfect, Holy, Just, etc...

He atoned and became the "way in" for those who are His.

In the context that damnation is not His Will.

Yes, He knows whose are His.
Yes, He gives us the power to make choices.
Yes, He knows what choices we will make before we make them.
No, He will not send those who are not His Sheep to eternal damnation.

If a person ends up there, it will be as a consequence to their rejection of the Grace of God.

The damnation of the wicked is not a consequence of God's Character, it's a consequence of their wickedness.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

In the context that damnation is not His Will.

Yes, He knows whose are His.
Yes, He gives us the power to make choices.
Yes, He knows what choices we will make before we make them.
No, He will not send those who are not His Sheep to eternal damnation.

If a person ends up there, it will be as a consequence to their rejection of the Grace of God.

The damnation of the wicked is not a consequence of God's Character, it's a consequence of their wickedness.

Not sure you are getting what was meant.

His nature and character demands holiness and justice. This was the purpose of Jesus' mission and the Cross, in fact. So, that there is impending judgment, and an assignment for death, is a consequence of God's very nature -- and of course, a consequence of our own rebellion.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Not sure you are getting what was meant.

His nature and character demands holiness and justice. This was the purpose of Jesus' mission and the Cross, in fact. So, that there is impending judgment, and an assignment for death, is a consequence of God's very nature -- and of course, a consequence of our own rebellion.

There are occasions in the OT where justice demanded, He had decided to bring destruction, and still He changed His mind.

God ordained cities of refuge.

God chose to spare.

God chose to send His Son.

God could have chose a different way.

God created us with the power to choose as well.


His Sovereignty does not demand that eternal damnation be a consequence of His Nature.

Our damnation is a consequence of our rebellion.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

There are occasions in the OT where justice demanded, He had decided to bring destruction, and still He changed His mind.

God ordained cities of refuge.

God chose to spare.

God chose to send His Son.

God could have chose a different way.

God created us with the power to choose as well.


His Sovereignty does not demand that eternal damnation be a consequence of His Nature.

Our damnation is a consequence of our rebellion.

We're just repeating the same thing.

What you concluded with, I've already said. But our rebellion being damned is a byproduct of His character (read: holiness).

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

We're just repeating the same thing.

What you concluded with, I've already said. But our rebellion being damned is a byproduct of His character (read: holiness).

I disagree.

If you are saying that a person's eternal damnation is a byproduct of His Character, then in essence you are saying that the Sovereign God can't control His desire to see justice carried out on the wicked.

Through the scriptures I have support to believe that the eternal damnation of the wicked does not have to happen because of God's Sense of justice. God can and has shown Himself to hold off on His Own Sense of judgment, in the OT through His Sovereignty and in the NT through His Son.

The eternal damnation of the wicked will not happen because God does not have a choice.

Still, God does not send anyone to hell.


He gives us the power to choose.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I disagree.

If you are saying that a person's eternal damnation is a byproduct of His Character, then in essence you are saying that the Sovereign God can't control His desire to see justice carried out on the wicked.

Through the scriptures I have support to believe that the eternal damnation of the wicked does not have to happen because of God's Sense of justice. God can and has shown Himself to hold off on His Own Sense of judgment, in the OT through His Sovereignty and in the NT through His Son.

The eternal damnation of the wicked will not happen because God does not have a choice.

Still, God does not send anyone to hell.


He gives us the power to choose.

I'm really trying to follow your questions here, but it just sounds like repitition and haggling on semantics so small that they are hardly noticeable.

God is Holy. Rebellion and disobedience demand justice (a good Character of God). We rebel, and are thus damned. We aren't just damned because we are rebellious or disobedient. But because God's holiness and justice demand such.

The NT doesn't reveal God holding back justice. It reveals a God who came himself to receive the due justice that we deserved.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I'm really trying to follow your questions here, but it just sounds like repitition and haggling on semantics so small that they are hardly noticeable.

God is Holy. Rebellion and disobedience demand justice (a good Character of God). We rebel, and are thus damned. We aren't just damned because we are rebellious or disobedient. But because God's holiness and justice demand such.

The NT doesn't reveal God holding back justice. It reveals a God who came himself to receive the due justice that we deserved.

I find myself disagreeing with you still. I promise that I am not trying to haggle over semantics.


You say that God's holiness and justice demand the eternal damnation of human souls.

I say that's not true.



You say that the NT reveals a God who came Himself to receive the due justice that we deserved.

Agreed. Yet, the NT does not reveal a God receiving eternal damnation.



The Bible makes clear that there is a Lake of Fire.
The Bible makes clear that there will be those human souls who will be cast into that Lake of Fire.

Does the Bible make clear that this will happen because it is God's Will?
No.

Does the Bible make clear that this will happen because of God's Thirst for justice on the souls of the wicked?
No.

Does the Bible even imply that this will happen because God has to let this happen?
No.

Is there a sense of "yin and yang" with our God that necessitates the eternal destruction of human souls?
No.


God is Sovereign, Holy, and Good.
His Nature plays no role whatsoever in the soul of a man ending up in hell.