We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

mfblume · #1 04-20-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I am simply making a statement from my point of view I don't have time right now to go into lengthy dicussion. My point is to think about why he makes certan distinctions. It had substance as it is pointing to MY OPINION vs his reasoning for making such distinctions the way he does.

Oh and Mike how many views of atonement and justification have you studied outside of your clearly Reformed drenched views? You said you went through a period of study over it. WHO did you study during that time?

I know it's hard for some to believe that we can study the bible alone and get thoughts, but I did not study any man's writings from any books. Pigeonhole it all you want, but I studied the BIBLE intensely for those years I was referring to. I studied no Reformer school material whatsoever. I got this directly from the Lord. I do not know where your Reform accusation comes from. I do not know what the Reform movement teaches on any of this.

mfblume · #2 04-20-2011, 09:07 AM

I just researched for the last minute a little snippet about Reformed theology. What is so ironic about LUKE2447's accusation is that I claimed God directly spoke to me about these issues of the cross in my personal studies of the bible, and Reformed theologians do not believe God does that whatsoever today. They claim God ONLY speaks through written word. And I got things from prayer and bible study that you claim I got from Reformed writings.

Bro., get away from man's writings. You refer us to books, pigeon-hole beliefs with some movement you are aware of, and do not seem to go directly to God and the Bible for these things. That is why people will reject anything they do not already agree with, since there is no concept of letting the Lord lead a person. They stand on the vein of theology they were taught and never divert away from it due to some sort of loyalty issue, not realizing God wants to lead us by His Spirit into the Word to better understand it just as the Word was first inspired by that same Spirit!

Why ask WHOSE BOOKS do we read? Are you saying you get all your beliefs from men's books? Phew! Is there no room for the Spirit leading one's personal studies? If we disagree with your theology does that mean we must have read a bad book?

LUKE2447 · #3 04-20-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I just researched for the last minute a little snippet about Reformed theology. What is so ironic about LUKE2447's accusation is that I claimed God directly spoke to me about these issues of the cross in my personal studies of the bible, and Reformed theologians do not believe God does that whatsoever today. They claim God ONLY speaks through written word. And I got things from prayer and bible study that you claim I got from Reformed writings.

Bro., get away from man's writings. You refer us to books, pigeon-hole beliefs with some movement you are aware of, and do not seem to go directly to God and the Bible for these things. That is why people will reject anything they do not already agree with, since there is no concept of letting the Lord lead a person. They stand on the vein of theology they were taught and never divert away from it due to some sort of loyalty issue, not realizing God wants to lead us by His Spirit into the Word to better understand it just as the Word was first inspired by that same Spirit!

Why ask WHOSE BOOKS do we read? Are you saying you get all your beliefs from men's books? Phew! Is there no room for the Spirit leading one's personal studies? If we disagree with your theology does that mean we must have read a bad book?

yeah... uh huh. Sure we can study the Bible for itself as we both advocate. Yet I am sorry but I do not see what you said as the total case. You use terminology and many different aspects that simply does not make that the case. Also when reading the Bible to say it does not have theological infuence in it totally misses translation issues among a few things. Mike we are all influnced principle reasoning on different levels and argumentation. To say you are not influenced as much as you debate by others book or not is laughable. Also to uderstand the Bible to it's depth and context takes a lot of work and aid of sources to get alleged backgound.

Mike again who in you years have you studied from a apologetic standpoint directly on this issue. I like sources as I read both sides of the argument. Also many other studies give side or indirect impressions of thought to it whether you want to acknowlege it or not.

Whether you agree with reformed on everything or not is not the issue. I am talking about a specific s of issues. Well gotta go. Oh and by the way the thing you disagreed on is what w agree on in many aspects.

TGBTG · #4 04-20-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

yeah... uh huh. Sure we can study the Bible for itself as we both advocate. Yet I am sorry but I do not see what you said as the total case. You use terminology and many different aspects that simply does not make that the case. Also when reading the Bible to say it does not have theological infuence in it totally misses translation issues among a few things. Mike we are all influnced principle reasoning on different levels and argumentation. To say you are not influenced as much as you debate by others book or not is laughable. Also to uderstand the Bible to it's depth and context takes a lot of work and aid of sources to get alleged backgound.

Mike again who in you years have you studied from a apologetic standpoint directly on this issue. I like sources as I read both sides of the argument. Also many other studies give side or indirect impressions of thought to it whether you want to acknowlege it or not.

Whether you agree with reformed on everything or not is not the issue. I am talking about a specific s of issues. Well gotta go. Oh and by the way the thing you disagreed on is what w agree on in many aspects.

Dude, you don't have to study any reformed doctrine or any book to understand the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It's spelled out in the bible.

It's really simple....

Jesus saves, Jesus saves, Jesus saves!!!
The preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation. Jesus saves, we yield ourselves to him for the sanctification of our body, soul, and spirit. Not that we add an ounce to our salvation, Jesus does all the saving.

If you think you can add a single ounce to the work of Christ, I'd be really scared, for you'd be insinuating that the blood of Jesus is not sufficient.

What can wash away my sins
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!!!

TGBTG · #5 04-20-2011, 09:57 AM

Again, let's just cut to the chase. It's easy for people to discuss doctrine, but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different ball game...

For Luke and MTD, what makes you sure you are gonna be in heaven?

Please tell us.

Since, we are "OSAS", "reformed doctrine", and all other sorts, would you please grace us with your knowledge so we can know how to get to heaven?

Charnock · #6 04-20-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Again, let's just cut to the chase. It's easy for people to discuss doctrine, but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different ball game...

For Luke and MTD, what makes you sure you are gonna be in heaven?

Please tell us.

Since, we are "OSAS", "reformed doctrine", and all other sorts, would you please grace us with your knowledge so we can know how to get to heaven?

Good luck getting an answer.

Aquila · #7 04-20-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I just researched for the last minute a little snippet about Reformed theology. What is so ironic about LUKE2447's accusation is that I claimed God directly spoke to me about these issues of the cross in my personal studies of the bible, and Reformed theologians do not believe God does that whatsoever today. They claim God ONLY speaks through written word. And I got things from prayer and bible study that you claim I got from Reformed writings.

Bro., get away from man's writings. You refer us to books, pigeon-hole beliefs with some movement you are aware of, and do not seem to go directly to God and the Bible for these things. That is why people will reject anything they do not already agree with, since there is no concept of letting the Lord lead a person. They stand on the vein of theology they were taught and never divert away from it due to some sort of loyalty issue, not realizing God wants to lead us by His Spirit into the Word to better understand it just as the Word was first inspired by that same Spirit!

Why ask WHOSE BOOKS do we read? Are you saying you get all your beliefs from men's books? Phew! Is there no room for the Spirit leading one's personal studies? If we disagree with your theology does that mean we must have read a bad book?

AMEN!

Aquila · #8 04-20-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I know it's hard for some to believe that we can study the bible alone and get thoughts, but I did not study any man's writings from any books. Pigeonhole it all you want, but I studied the BIBLE intensely for those years I was referring to. I studied no Reformer school material whatsoever. I got this directly from the Lord. I do not know where your Reform accusation comes from. I do not know what the Reform movement teaches on any of this.

Amen. I can testify to this. I began attending a more Reformed church and discovered that they believed in many of the things I had gotten from my study of the Scriptures. I'm often challenged for "sources" and can't give them...because I came to my understanding just by studying the Word.

mfblume · #9 04-20-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. I can testify to this. I began attending a more Reformed church and discovered that they believed in many of the things I had gotten from my study of the Scriptures. I'm often challenged for "sources" and can't give them...because I came to my understanding just by studying the Word.

Right. I have always been reading whom I consider many good authors. Gene Edwards, Watchman Nee, Gary Garner, and Andrew Murray. And I just today found that Reformed theologians had problems with all these guys. Like I said, I have no clue what Reformed theology teaches on atonement. But I am sure they have some good points, since Luke 2447 seems to think I got my thoughts from reformers. lol I would see scriptures come together and emphasize the issues I stress to this day in what I can only call spiritual illumination and revelation.

Once I saw that CHRIST DIED AS US, things took off and my studies became explosive to my heart.