"All the time"?????? I challenge you to find where I have said anything in a long time. I continually restrain myself and just pray for you guys. It honestly breaks my heart for you guys to abandon church life because of your bad exrperience.
The Bible clearly talks about the value of assembling together and of pastors, teachers, etc. You are missing out on some things God put in place to help you get over the hurt you experienced.
I don't say any of this with anything but love and hope for you and your husband. I know you guys have a lot to offer the Kingdom of God.
I can honestly say that I do not need a pastor, or a church of any sort... there is nothing that either a pastor or church can provide for me that I cannot find for myself. When I listen to phone calls of people that for some reason have to talk to my dad (a pastor) almost daily, or even several times a day, it intrigues me more than anything else. I just can't imagine how their lives must be if they feel they cannot make any decision, or go through any sort of emotions without calling the pastor or pastor's wife to discuss them. At 39 years old and about to turn 40, I can't think of a single thing that has happened in my life that a church or pastor would have been able to help me with, and I am being completely honest. I will say that other churches and pastors frequently help my mom and dad since they choose to live "on faith" and regularly find that the ends don't meet when you live on faith, but they don't see it that way. They live life in such a way that even if they can't pay their rent, or their utilities, as long as they had a can of beans for supper, then God provided (even if it took someone who DIDN'T live on faith to provide the can of beans...)
At the same time, I do try to nurture my relationships with my friends and certain family members that have a life outside of church. I believe that being around other people that care is rewarding to all parties involved in the relationship, but there are many places you can find that outside of church. I see no reason to subject myself to church, a pastor, or even religion of any sort. I don't need anything that they are selling... and feel free to call me selfish, but I DO practice giving to charity and volunteering my time as well, and I also don't live in the gutter (like is predicted of anyone who "backslides").
I can honestly say that I do not need a pastor, or a church of any sort... there is nothing that either a pastor or church can provide for me that I cannot find for myself. When I listen to phone calls of people that for some reason have to talk to my dad (a pastor) almost daily, or even several times a day, it intrigues me more than anything else. I just can't imagine how their lives must be if they feel they cannot make any decision, or go through any sort of emotions without calling the pastor or pastor's wife to discuss them. At 39 years old and about to turn 40, I can't think of a single thing that has happened in my life that a church or pastor would have been able to help me with, and I am being completely honest. I will say that other churches and pastors frequently help my mom and dad since they choose to live "on faith" and regularly find that the ends don't meet when you live on faith, but they don't see it that way. They live life in such a way that even if they can't pay their rent, or their utilities, as long as they had a can of beans for supper, then God provided (even if it took someone who DIDN'T live on faith to provide the can of beans...)
At the same time, I do try to nurture my relationships with my friends and certain family members that have a life outside of church. I believe that being around other people that care is rewarding to all parties involved in the relationship, but there are many places you can find that outside of church. I see no reason to subject myself to church, a pastor, or even religion of any sort. I don't need anything that they are selling... and feel free to call me selfish, but I DO practice giving to charity and volunteering my time as well, and I also don't live in the gutter (like is predicted of anyone who "backslides").
I can honestly say that I do not need a pastor, or a church of any sort... there is nothing that either a pastor or church can provide for me that I cannot find for myself. When I listen to phone calls of people that for some reason have to talk to my dad (a pastor) almost daily, or even several times a day, it intrigues me more than anything else. I just can't imagine how their lives must be if they feel they cannot make any decision, or go through any sort of emotions without calling the pastor or pastor's wife to discuss them. At 39 years old and about to turn 40, I can't think of a single thing that has happened in my life that a church or pastor would have been able to help me with, and I am being completely honest. I will say that other churches and pastors frequently help my mom and dad since they choose to live "on faith" and regularly find that the ends don't meet when you live on faith, but they don't see it that way. They live life in such a way that even if they can't pay their rent, or their utilities, as long as they had a can of beans for supper, then God provided (even if it took someone who DIDN'T live on faith to provide the can of beans...)
At the same time, I do try to nurture my relationships with my friends and certain family members that have a life outside of church. I believe that being around other people that care is rewarding to all parties involved in the relationship, but there are many places you can find that outside of church. I see no reason to subject myself to church, a pastor, or even religion of any sort. I don't need anything that they are selling... and feel free to call me selfish, but I DO practice giving to charity and volunteering my time as well, and I also don't live in the gutter (like is predicted of anyone who "backslides").
Ephesians 4:11-13 clearly states that there is a place in our lives for pastors, teachers, etc. I have no doubt that someone stranded on a deserted island could live for God and make it. All others are clearly expected to assemble together, be ministered to by pastors, teachers, etc according to the Word of God. You are a smart guy so I bet deep down you know all of this but because of your personal experience with those ministries being misused you reject it.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
The difference in the worship.. why the AOG who at one time most likely worshipped just like Apostolics have not emphasized the same refervor.
Same here!
It is saddening.
I haven't joined this church, but probably will because it's so close to my house and there are opportunities for me to actually get involved in the church in a little while, once I officially "join".
From a conversation I had with this Pastor about 9 months ago, when I first visited the church, I don't even think he thinks what used to happen in the AOG church and what happens in Apostolic churches today (concerning the demonstrative praise and worship) is biblical.
Which may be the one thing that keeps me from joining here-- but I need to find somewhere to worship....
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
The difference in the worship.. why the AOG who at one time most likely worshipped just like Apostolics have not emphasized the same refervor.
They got tired.
Only half kidding, by the way. Or less. They still have that fervor on occasions, like revivals or camp meetings. Maybe they prefer it that way. Makes it more special.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The difference in the worship.. why the AOG who at one time most likely worshipped just like Apostolics have not emphasized the same refervor.
Well that depends on which AOG and what you mean by 'ferver'.
If you look back at Azusa and Topeka, they were prayer meetings. There was no loud thumping music. People were not running the aisles.
Give me a group of people that pray "fervently" over a group of people that run around in circles, scream and jump any day. Most of that stuff is pure emotionalism, some is exhibitionism and the rest is someone's non-biblical idea of what pleases God.
When there is genuine rejoicing, that's fine, but a lot of what goes on is a human version of Pavlov's dogs..play the music, watch then run for a reward
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Hybrid Mode
