C.H. Spurgeon: Baptist Preacher on the Holy Spirit

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Prevenient grace is divine grace which precedes human decision. It exists prior to and without reference to anything humans may have done. As humans are corrupted by the effects of sin, prevenient grace allows persons to engage their God-given free will to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ or to reject that salvific offer. Whereas Augustine held that prevenient grace cannot be resisted, Wesleyan Arminians believe that it enables, but does not ensure, personal acceptance of the gift of salvation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevenient_grace

I referred to Foreknowledge, not Prevenient Grace.

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I referred to Foreknowledge, not Prevenient Grace.

Arminians say that God knew who would choose receive salvation, and then chose them on the basis of that knowledge. [Synergism]

Calvinists say that God "knew" someone in the biblical sense (i.e. loved them intimately), and then chose to regenerate their hearts without any basis in whether or not they would have chosen him. [Monergism]

There is a difference in how foreknowledge is defined.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol...onergism2.html

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Arminians say that God knew who would choose receive salvation, and then chose them on the basis of that knowledge. [Synergism]

Calvinists say that God "knew" someone in the biblical sense (i.e. loved them intimately), and then chose to regenerate their hearts without any basis in whether or not they would have chosen him. [Monergism]

There is a difference in how foreknowledge is defined.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol...onergism2.html

How does the bible define foreknowledge?

Here's an interesting note

For if God knows what I will do, it must be certain that I am going to do it. If it were not certain, God could not know it; He might be mistaken (I might act differently from what He expects). But if what I will do is certain, then surely I will do it, whether or not I know what I will do. It will happen!

http://www.icstc.com/bg/will/fore.html

another

Some Calvinists have tried to use this to argue that 'foreknow' necessarily implies a relationship, in that the other Jews 'knew' Paul as a friend before he was saved. But the passage can just as easily mean that they knew all about Paul. Not really proof for the monergsitic interpretation.


Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

Now this provides a bit better evidence. The word is not just 'foreknow,' but 'foreknowledge' (Greek: Prognosis). A major difficulty for the Calvinist view of election according to forelove instead of foreknowledge is that the Greek word for 'knowledge' (gnosis) is not used to indicate love, friendship, or special preference. The words that make up Prognosis are 'pro,' a primary preposition that is used as a suffix to mean 'before,' and 'gnosis,' which simply means 'knowledge' (intelligence, advanced understanding, wisdom, etc.). Prognosis even survives today in the English language, carrying an identical definition. So it is then rather a futile effort to attempt to re-interpret election according to the prognosis of God into election according to the forelove of God.

http://www.indeathorlife.org/soterio...word-usage.php

[Godsdrummer]

Just have to get into the mix here, as none of it matters one way or another. When are we going to get it, God is God, he knows everything, of course he knows if you are going to go to heaven or not. That does not mean he predestend you!

Further why do we get hung up in the ideas of history today, those ideas do not count for a hill of beans. They may have worked for them then. That does not mean we don't have a better understanding of things today. What one beleives today may have some Calvins ideas that does not make him a calvinist. We are too quick to label others and then fellowship them or disfellowship them upon that label.

Just like PP or FP within the teachings there are many differances between each.

Bottom line salvation come by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, the depth of the move of the spirit depends upon the depth each individual takes thier salvation in relatinship with God.

Further God predestined all men to be saved. Whether we are saved or not has nothing to do with the forknowladge of God its all on you my friend, no matter what Calvin or any other taught in times past.

Carry on

[Orthodoxy]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Further why do we get hung up in the ideas of history today, those ideas do not count for a hill of beans. They may have worked for them then. That does not mean we don't have a better understanding of things today.

C.S. Lewis referred to this attitude as "chronological snobbery."

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

C.S. Lewis referred to this attitude as "chronological snobbery."

I think you miss the whole point, of what I was trying to say. We toss back and forth the teachings of our forfather as if they had it all or were the authority on a subject. Looking at thier ideas and thoughts are ok as we need to understand where they came from. But to say because I believe somewhat like so and so therefor I am .... We need to look past many of the differances in the kingdom of God and quit labeling each other and ostrisizing one another.

As many of us use this and other forums to put forth our thoughts and ideas so we can test them against others thoughts and ideas, we should never get to the point where we start to name call one another.

[Godsdrummer]

Part of the quote from you sight

{From seeing this, one passes to the realization that our own age is also "a period," and certainly has, like all periods, its own characteristic illusions. They are likeliest to lurk in those widespread assumptions which are so ingrained in the age that no one dares to attack or feels it necessary to defend them. ”}

The point is do we ever get to a point where we "have arrived"? Many groups teach the missconception that they have the "Whole Truth". This idea leads us into a false sence of security a Christian should never have. As we must always search scripture for deeper relationship with God. When we stop growing is when we become stagnant. Many Christians stopped growing right after they got saved, as they completed the steps of that particular denomination, and began to fill a church pew, never going on into heights of deeper relationship, rather letting the elder of that group feed them dry dog food in place to fresh word of God from the garden of life.

Hows that for a medifore?

[Austin]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I referred to Foreknowledge, not Prevenient Grace.

I also agree!!!