Princeton Grad Student Bill Zeller Suicide Note In

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I don't understand your "preached Jesus of hate, rather than love" comment.

From what he said He never heard about the real Jesus because it was locked into traditions of men. If he really heard Jesus loved him and understood it I believe He may have had a different outlook of faith.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

From what he said He never heard about the real Jesus because it was locked into traditions of men. If he really heard Jesus loved him and understood it I believe He may have had a different outlook of faith.

That's what I thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean he heard a message of Jesus of hate.

More likely he heard the message of can't do this, can't do that which is what he meant by the traditions of men.

I do agree with what you are saying though - he probably wasn't shown the love of God simply because of the way his parents were.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

That's what I thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean he heard a message of Jesus of hate.

More likely he heard the message of can't do this, can't do that which is what he meant by the traditions of men.

I do agree with what you are saying though - he probably wasn't shown the love of God simply because of the way his parents were.

Are you familiar with the fundamental baptists? It sounds like that is how he was taught. I'd sad its 99% them. They tell their people that once they are saved they CANNOT lose their salvation, no matter if they commit murder. The guy in the letter clearly expressed He did not believe in or would not serve a God like that.

I heard one IFB preacher say that if you believed you could lose your salvation, you weren't saved.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Are you familiar with the fundamental baptists? It sounds like that is how he was taught. I'd sad its 99% them. They tell their people that once they are saved they CANNOT lose their salvation, no matter if they commit murder. The guy in the letter clearly expressed He did not believe in or would not serve a God like that.

I heard one IFB preacher say that if you believed you could lose your salvation, you weren't saved.

Didn't pick up on him being fundamental Baptist - thought he just said fundamental Christian.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Didn't pick up on him being fundamental Baptist - thought he just said fundamental Christian.

It matches.. who else says you can't lose your salvation? Other baptists maybe.

He talked about dress and all.. so its most likely that.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

It matches.. who else says you can't lose your salvation? Other baptists maybe.

He talked about dress and all.. so its most likely that.

Nope - - think you are assuming that. Baptists don't attend church 7 hours a week either - lol!

Also, he said this, "I grew up in a house where love was proxied through a God I could never believe in."

He couldn't believe in the God they taught because of how he was molested as a child.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Nope - - think you are assuming that. Baptists don't attend church 7 hours a week either - lol!

Also, he said this, "I grew up in a house where love was proxied through a God I could never believe in."

He couldn't believe in the God they taught because of how he was molested as a child.

If you choose to follow a religion where, for example, devout Catholics who are trying to be good people are all going to Hell but child molestors go to Heaven (as long as they were “saved” at some point), that’s your choice...

Maybe a God who operates by those rules does exist, if so **** him.


To me his point was that they taught saved people could do whatever and still go to heaven but Catholics had no hope.

Thats typical fundamental baptist rant. They do attend church quite often. We know it wasn't Methodist or Pentecostal or Free will baptist type churches so it is in the Calvinist group, although I don't see many others teaching this aside from Fundamental baptists. I could be wrong though.


Its still wrong what he went through and I can feel his agony. This is what other lost souls are going through, some at them at least. They are crying out for some hope.

[Aquila]

I feel an evil inside me. An evil that makes me want to end life.

I'm heart broken at this person's pain. His abuse clearly left deep scars that he never recovered from. The statement above causes me to fear that he was demonized. When we have been abused and are weak, vulnerable, self depreciating, and feeling a sense of worthlessness... believing the enemy's lies can be deadly.

If anyone reading these posts has felt anything like the statement I quoted below, please seek counseling and pastoral assistance before it's too late.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

From what he said He never heard about the real Jesus because it was locked into traditions of men. If he really heard Jesus loved him and understood it I believe He may have had a different outlook of faith.

I think I understand where you're coming from. For most of my teen-to-adult life I thought along the lines of there being a "real Jesus" and a "false Jesus" that were being preached. Every time someone "failed" (like this suicide note represents) I would attribute the failing to a "false Jesus" being preached.

I'm no longer certain that this dichotomy is the best way to look at these things, however. It's nice to have a "Fake Jesus" to pull out of the box and wave around whenever something bad happens. This restores our faith that everything is a-okay with us and our "Real Jesus."

But what happens when things go terribly wrong within a group who obviously possess the "Real Jesus?" I was confronted with this problem for about the first time when the Bible College president was (apparently) hood-winked into taking part in an inter-state auto theft ring. We had lots of the upper classmen traveling around in stolen automobiles boasting about how "God" was blessing them financially.

Now, they had the "Real Jesus," I'm certain of it. But that ended up being a rather embarrassing front page story in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Why didn't the "Real Jesus" do anything? The college President was forced to resign and narrowly avoided going to jail because he appeared to have been duped as well.

The board that controlled the school voted to close the school twice in just that one year. Even today (about 30 years later) people still will ask me why I didn't return to Bible school after that first year. My own pastor at the time (who was involved in multi-level marketing with the school's President) still brings this up. All I can say is, "DUH!?!"

My take is, bad things are going to happen. Child rape (as in the Princeton Suicide Note) will happen and it will happen most often in families and communities where it has been going on already for generations. It's not a "Bad Jesus." It's bad people passing along hatred and abuse from generation to generation.

We can have "The Real Jesus" and still see awful crimes in our midst. It really has little to do with "Jesus." It usually involves bad people preying upon the young, the innocent and those who don't have their guard up at all times.

Acts 15:24; Galatians 2:4; Ephesians 4:14; 2 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:15-16; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Jude 1:4


Ezekiel 22:27-30:

"Her princes (Jerusalem's "princes" or rulers - see Ezekiel 22:2 and 22:6) in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none."

[ILG]

Yikes! Horrifying. I hope he has found some peace regardless of the fact he took his own life. If a person is that tortured that they are killing themselves to keep from killing somebody else, I don't know, I hope God would have mercy. I can't say I know what it is liked to have been repeatedly raped as a young child. Or ever.