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Old 10-11-2011, 12:48 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

excerpt taken from website:

Undying, Immortal Soul?
Doesn't the Bible speak of the "undying," "immortal" soul?

No, the undying, immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. The word "immortal" is found only once in the Bible, and it is in reference to God (1 Timothy 1:17).


Since man is made in the image of God and God is immortal isn't man then also immortal?

Why should only one of God's attributes, that of immortality, be singled out for comparison? God is all-powerful. Does it therefore follow that man, made in the image of God, is also all-powerful? God is all-wise. Is man therefore possessed of boundless wisdom, because made in God’s image?

The Bible uses the word “immortality” only five times, and the word “immortal” only once. In this lone instance the term is applied to God: “Eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.” 1 Tim. 1:17. The five references that contain the word “immortality” are as follows:

Romans 2:7. In this text the Christian is exhorted to “seek” for immortality. Why should he seek for it if he already possesses it? In this same book of Romans, Paul quotes the prophet Elijah as saying of his enemies, “They seek my life.” We understand from this that the prophet’s enemies did not yet have his life in their hands. Therefore, when we are exhorted to seek for immortality, for a life that knows no end, we must conclude that we do not now possess such a life.

2 Timothy 1:10. Here we learn that Christ “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.” The only deduction from this is that so far from immortality’s being a natural possession of all men, it is one of the good things made possible through the gospel. Paul wrote, “The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.” Rom. 6:23. Why would we need this gift if we already had undying souls?

1 Corinthians 15:53. This passage tells when we shall receive immortality. The time is “at the last trump.” Then “this mortal must put on immortality.” Why should the apostle Paul speak of our putting on immortality at a future date if we already possess it?

1 Corinthians 15:54. This verse simply adds the thought that when “this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Timothy 6:16. Here we learn that God “only hath immortality.” This final text settles the matter as conclusively as words could possibly do, and explains fully why we are exhorted to “seek” immortality, and why we are told that immortality is something that is to be “put on” “at the last trump.”

Not only do we learn from these texts that we do not have immortality, but also we are told that God alone has it.

There are other texts which contain in the original Greek the same word that is translated “immortal” or “immortality” in the six texts we have just considered. But these additional texts do not require us to change our conclusion; on the contrary they strengthen it. Take, for example, Romans 1:23, where Paul, speaking of the idolatrous action of the heathen, says that they “changed the glory of the uncorruptible [immortal] God into an image made like to corruptible [mortal] man.” In the Greek, the word here translated “uncorruptible” is the same as that rendered “immortal” in 1 Timothy 1:17: “Eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.” The Expositor’s Bible translates the passage thus: “Transmuted the glory of the immortal God in a semblance of the likeness of mortal man.” The uncorruptible, the immortal God is sharply contrasted with corruptible, mortal man.

We read in John 5:26 that the “Father hath life in himself,” and that He hath “given to the Son to have life in Himself.” But nowhere do we read that God gave to human beings to have life in themselves. That is why the Bible never speaks of man as immortal.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:53 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
excerpt taken from website:

Undying, Immortal Soul?
Doesn't the Bible speak of the "undying," "immortal" soul?

No, the undying, immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. The word "immortal" is found only once in the Bible, and it is in reference to God (1 Timothy 1:17).


Since man is made in the image of God and God is immortal isn't man then also immortal?

Why should only one of God's attributes, that of immortality, be singled out for comparison? God is all-powerful. Does it therefore follow that man, made in the image of God, is also all-powerful? God is all-wise. Is man therefore possessed of boundless wisdom, because made in God’s image?

The Bible uses the word “immortality” only five times, and the word “immortal” only once. In this lone instance the term is applied to God: “Eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.” 1 Tim. 1:17. The five references that contain the word “immortality” are as follows:

Romans 2:7. In this text the Christian is exhorted to “seek” for immortality. Why should he seek for it if he already possesses it? In this same book of Romans, Paul quotes the prophet Elijah as saying of his enemies, “They seek my life.” We understand from this that the prophet’s enemies did not yet have his life in their hands. Therefore, when we are exhorted to seek for immortality, for a life that knows no end, we must conclude that we do not now possess such a life.

2 Timothy 1:10. Here we learn that Christ “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.” The only deduction from this is that so far from immortality’s being a natural possession of all men, it is one of the good things made possible through the gospel. Paul wrote, “The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.” Rom. 6:23. Why would we need this gift if we already had undying souls?

1 Corinthians 15:53. This passage tells when we shall receive immortality. The time is “at the last trump.” Then “this mortal must put on immortality.” Why should the apostle Paul speak of our putting on immortality at a future date if we already possess it?

1 Corinthians 15:54. This verse simply adds the thought that when “this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Timothy 6:16. Here we learn that God “only hath immortality.” This final text settles the matter as conclusively as words could possibly do, and explains fully why we are exhorted to “seek” immortality, and why we are told that immortality is something that is to be “put on” “at the last trump.”

Not only do we learn from these texts that we do not have immortality, but also we are told that God alone has it.

There are other texts which contain in the original Greek the same word that is translated “immortal” or “immortality” in the six texts we have just considered. But these additional texts do not require us to change our conclusion; on the contrary they strengthen it. Take, for example, Romans 1:23, where Paul, speaking of the idolatrous action of the heathen, says that they “changed the glory of the uncorruptible [immortal] God into an image made like to corruptible [mortal] man.” In the Greek, the word here translated “uncorruptible” is the same as that rendered “immortal” in 1 Timothy 1:17: “Eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.” The Expositor’s Bible translates the passage thus: “Transmuted the glory of the immortal God in a semblance of the likeness of mortal man.” The uncorruptible, the immortal God is sharply contrasted with corruptible, mortal man.

We read in John 5:26 that the “Father hath life in himself,” and that He hath “given to the Son to have life in Himself.” But nowhere do we read that God gave to human beings to have life in themselves. That is why the Bible never speaks of man as immortal.
I do not believe in the 'immortal soul' immortality is only given to the righteous. However GOD said they would be tormented forever and they will be NOT because they have an immortal soul but because God will cause them to suffer for eternity.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:11 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I do not believe in the 'immortal soul' immortality is only given to the righteous. However GOD said they would be tormented forever and they will be NOT because they have an immortal soul but because God will cause them to suffer for eternity.
Huh?

Get your words strait before trying to explain something as complicated as the afterlife.

If your grammatical skill here is any sign of your ability to interpret the Bible, History, Science, and Culture, people listening to you are in trouble.

Mr. Epley, you appear to be cut and dry, but your trail of mixed up words/ideas, and, your lack of solid reasoning are dangerous.
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:00 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
Huh?

Get your words strait before trying to explain something as complicated as the afterlife.

If your grammatical skill here is any sign of your ability to interpret the Bible, History, Science, and Culture, people listening to you are in trouble.

Mr. Epley, you appear to be cut and dry, but your trail of mixed up words/ideas, and, your lack of solid reasoning are dangerous.
The allow me to explain clearer IF I can. Immortality is only promised to the righteous and the majority of the passages are concerning the BODY and NOT the soul. However the people are NOT born with eternal life from their natural birth we recieve eternal life from our spiritual birth. So the wicked do not have eternal life nor will they recieve an immortal body. HOWEVER God who is the Creator and who has the power to kill and make alive will cause the wicked to be tormented forever without end NOT because they are somehow born eternal creatures but because His judgment will allow them to suffer eternal death or dying.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
The allow me to explain clearer IF I can. Immortality is only promised to the righteous and the majority of the passages are concerning the BODY and NOT the soul. However the people are NOT born with eternal life from their natural birth we recieve eternal life from our spiritual birth. So the wicked do not have eternal life nor will they recieve an immortal body. HOWEVER God who is the Creator and who has the power to kill and make alive will cause the wicked to be tormented forever without end NOT because they are somehow born eternal creatures but because His judgment will allow them to suffer eternal death or dying.
Sorry, still confused by your Spectral bantering. You give ultimatums that cannot be proven. Guess work leads to more guessing.

How can a person die, forever? When a person dies, they cease to exist.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:58 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
Sorry, still confused by your Spectral bantering. You give ultimatums that cannot be proven. Guess work leads to more guessing.

How can a person die, forever? When a person dies, they cease to exist.
Yes if God wills they can and will die forever not naturally but God can and will make it so.
They are NOT going to cease to exist.
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:04 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Yes if God wills they can and will die forever not naturally but God can and will make it so.
They are NOT going to cease to exist.
Oh, so God told you He would "Make it so"?

Steve, I don't know you, but some of the things that you say on this Forum are totally your personal opinion. That's OK with me, but just admit that these opinions are yours and they might be in error.

Christianity is overrun with opinions and ideas that cannot be proven, and we do the World an injustice by claiming these as facts.

We can run in circles all day long with our opinions that live in a false balance.

Here is a brief definition of Death; Death is the permanent termination of the biological functions that sustain a living organism. When you tell people they will die forever, you are confusing them. This is also how Religions lose their credibility.

I also think that you would be more careful in building a premise for truth, as you were once in False Doctrine.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:02 PM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Helltruth.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale View Post
Sorry, still confused by your Spectral bantering. You give ultimatums that cannot be proven. Guess work leads to more guessing.

How can a person die, forever? When a person dies, they cease to exist.
I am sorry I offered to explain what I meant since you are so brilliant and articulate I am sure it humbled you just to read it. I hope you have taught several I hate for wisdom to die with you.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:10 AM
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Re: Helltruth.com

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
I am sorry I offered to explain what I meant since you are so brilliant and articulate I am sure it humbled you just to read it. I hope you have taught several I hate for wisdom to die with you.
Another irony meter bites the dust.
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