The Second Coming of Christ

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Nicely put. A pretty compelling argument. I certainly have no doubt that we are in for miraculous things, and have to agree that this seems to describe a future corporate event. There is another interpretation here, which I'm sure you're aware of; but I am not familiar enough with it to present it. Your model here would lead to Rapture from there, yes?

Yes it would lead to rapture. But it is not a rapture before a trib, etc., in association with the traditional premillennialism disp models. 1 Cor 15, in my estimation, demands a physical bodily resurrection. Why would God intend that for us?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes it would lead to rapture. But it is not a rapture before a trib, etc., in association with the traditional premillennialism disp models. 1 Cor 15, in my estimation, demands a physical bodily resurrection. Why would God intend that for us?

Hmm, I just reread it, and I read that one can't resurrect in a physical body, but it's early, and I'd chiefly like to get the other interpretation of 1 Cor 15 in here, if you or someone would, for comparison, and completely ignore the
"24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;" blowing away any attempt to make Christ the Father.

I'll give this another day, read the commentaries, and then post a synopsis, if someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'd like to continue this from there, not expecting to marry the two viewpoints, but respect them both enough to present both interpretations fairly, if possible.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Hmm, I just reread it, and I read that one can't resurrect in a physical body, but it's early, and I'd chiefly like to get the other interpretation of 1 Cor 15 in here, if you or someone would, for comparison, and completely ignore the
"24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;" blowing away any attempt to make Christ the Father.

I'll give this another day, read the commentaries, and then post a synopsis, if someone doesn't beat me to it, and I'd like to continue this from there, not expecting to marry the two viewpoints, but respect them both enough to present both interpretations fairly, if possible.

1 Cor 15 says flesh and blood cannot enter inherit the kingdom. Not a physical body. I think you mistook FLESH AND BLOOD for a PHYSICAL BODY. FLESH AND BLOOD is an idiom. Notice this:

Jesus told Peter and that flesh and blood did not reveal the revelation of the Father to him. Paul said that we fight not against flesh and blood. but principalities. It is a periphrasis. A round about way of referring to THE FALLEN STATE OF MAN where sin is part of our flesh now.

The whole chapter is about physical bodies. IT is the same IT that is both sown and raised. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION AND IT IS RAISED in incorruption. Jesus' body was very physical and came out of the tomb in the same way God shall FASHION OUR BODIES from mortal to immortal.

Php 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

The whole question of 1 Cor 15 is WITH WHAT BODY SHALL THEY COME?

1Co 15:35 KJV But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

In all due respect, MTD is incorrect, NATURAL does not mean PHYSICAL. It means something that is empowered by natural life -- nature. SPIRITUAL does not mean NON-PHYSICAL. It means something, even physical, that is supernatural in quality. That is why SPIRITUAL MEAT AND DRINK were mentioned in the same book in 1 Cor 10. And it was VERY PHYSICAL.

Jesus rose in a PHYSICAL body that was said to be SPIRITUAL.

NATURAL AND SPIRITUAL have nothing to do with physical or not. There are people right now who are alive in earth and are SPIRITUAL people and NOT NATURAL:

1Co 2:14-15 KJV But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Does the above mean he that is non-physical without a physical body, alone can discern spiritual truths? Of course not.l And that again is in the same book, 1 Cor!

[mfblume]

I started a whole thread on this issue and delved into the greek terms used here:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...light=sarkikos