Charismatic

[Jared Hanley]

Originally Posted by The Matt

Do you believe in baptism in Jesus name, for the remission of your sins, will lead to the gift of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues?

Hmm. Let's see.

I believe in:

1. The remission of sins comes by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

2. Baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded. (I don't believe the Apostles actually differed from Jesus on this. I think the rendering in the book of Acts was descriptive rather than prescritive, meaning that they were merely baptizing people into the body of Christ and not in the name of Christ as opposed to the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost which is baptizing them in Jesus name because you are baptizing them in the name of the Son. Even if the apostles differed with Jesus on this, I would rather side with Jesus.)

3. The sanctifying work of the Spirit as a second work of grace.

And...

4. The baptism in the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues.


In that order.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jared Hanley

2. Baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded. (I don't believe the Apostles actually differed from Jesus on this. I think the rendering in the book of Acts was descriptive rather than prescritive, meaning that they were merely baptizing people into the body of Christ and not in the name of Christ as opposed to the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost which is baptizing them in Jesus name because you are baptizing them in the name of the Son. Even if the apostles differed with Jesus on this, I would rather side with Jesus.)

Let me ask you a simple question... who died on the cross?

[Jared Hanley]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Let me ask you a simple question... who died on the cross?

Jesus.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jared Hanley

Jesus.

The answer you gave is so simple, and will give you the answer to the bigger question... in what name to baptize in. Who died on the cross.. Jesus of course! Since Jesus was the one who did the actual work, why would you not want to be baptized in the name of Jesus? Whereby all authority, and power and dominion over sin has been achieved? Who was the one who died, and did this for you? God the Father, or the Holy Ghost? NO. It was Jesus. Very simple.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in name of the Lord Jesus.


How do you argue with the simplicity of this scripture?

[Jared Hanley]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The answer you gave is so simple, and will give you the answer to the bigger question... in what name to baptize in. Who died on the cross.. Jesus of course! Since Jesus was the one who did the actual work, why would you not want to be baptized in the name of Jesus? Whereby all authority, and power and dominion over sin has been achieved? Who was the one who died, and did this for you? God the Father, or the Holy Ghost? NO. It was Jesus. Very simple.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in name of the Lord Jesus.


How do you argue with the simplicity of this scripture?

All three members of the trinity are involved in redemption.

God the Father planned redemption and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (Isaiah 53:10, John 3:16) God the Son became a man in the incarnation and suffered in our place on the cross by taking the wrath of God that we deserved and turning it to favor. (1 John 2:2, John 1:14) The Holy Spirit applies redemtption to our hearts through regeneration by converting our hearts. He takes out the stony heart and replaces it with a heart of flesh that is spiritually responsive to God. (Ezekiel 36:26, 1 Peter 1:3)

All three members of the trinity are also involved in creation. As John Calvin says his "Institutes of the Christian Religion", "God our creator is also God our redeemer."

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Jared Hanley

Hmm. Let's see.

I believe in:

1. The remission of sins comes by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

2. Baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded. (I don't believe the Apostles actually differed from Jesus on this. I think the rendering in the book of Acts was descriptive rather than prescritive, meaning that they were merely baptizing people into the body of Christ and not in the name of Christ as opposed to the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost which is baptizing them in Jesus name because you are baptizing them in the name of the Son. Even if the apostles differed with Jesus on this, I would rather side with Jesus.)

3. The sanctifying work of the Spirit as a second work of grace.

And...

4. The baptism in the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues.


In that order.

1. The remission of sins comes by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

I'm a three stepper and I believe that. Don't know any three-stepper that doesn't. I also believe that faith without works is dead.

2. Baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded.

I believe in that too. The name (singular) which is Jesus.

3. The sanctifying work of the Spirit as a second work of grace.

Chapter and verse?

4. The baptism in the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in other tongues.

No argument here.

[Jared Hanley]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Chapter and verse?

Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. For I am the LORD who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”
Leviticus 11:44-45 ESV

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:8-10 ESV

The following scriptures show that this work of sanctification is monergistic, that is that salvation is of the Lord from first to last:

And the LORD said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:12-13 ESV

Consecrate yourselves, therefore, and be holy, for I am the LORD your God. Keep my statutes and do them; I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Leviticus 20:7-8 ESV

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Jared Hanley

Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. For I am the LORD who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”
Leviticus 11:44-45 ESV

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:8-10 ESV

The following scriptures show that this work of sanctification is monergistic, that is that salvation is of the Lord from first to last:

And the LORD said to Moses, “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:12-13 ESV

Consecrate yourselves, therefore, and be holy, for I am the LORD your God. Keep my statutes and do them; I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Leviticus 20:7-8 ESV

I'm not arguing that sanctification occurs, and that it is the Lord who sanctifies. I'm asking how you can be "saved" without first being "sanctified".

[Jared Hanley]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I'm not arguing that sanctification occurs, and that it is the Lord who sanctifies. I'm asking how you can be "saved" without first being "sanctified".

There is positional sanctification and progressive sanctification.

When we are justified in the sight of God by faith in Christ, we have positional sanctification. When God the Father looks at us, He no longer sees our sin but He sees Christ.

However, we still have indwelling sin.

I don't believe in Christian perfection. But, I do believe in a second work of grace. This is where the redemption that was begun in us applied more fully, yet still not to the point of totally eradicating sin in our lives. It's the now and the not yet of the kingdom. There are some benefits of the kingdom that we enjoy now. There are other benefits that we will enjoy later.

I see the second work of grace as a quantum leap in our sanctification. It enables us to live a more consecrated life.

Healing is the same way. Healing is in the atonement the same way that salvation is in the atonement. But, just as God is sovereign in salvation, He is also sovereign in healing. We don't receive all of the benefits of healing or salvation in this life. But we do receive a down payment. Our down payment is the Holy Spirit. The redemption that Christ secured for us can be released more and more by the Spirit as He wills, enabling us to overcome sin and disease.